I have seen some Interesting comments about Mcintosh lately

"While I am conscious of subjectivity of the comment and hate to hear myself say it because I always want to give a more definitive answer: It is particularly true with stereo equipment that synergy between the components, the listener, and the room itself creates the sound so the carte blanche condemnation of an entire brand is ridiculous."

Well most would certainly agree with that one Nad2, I think. You just have to understand that the very nature of these types of threads will always bring out these types of responses. I find some of them quite amusing myself but then again I always enjoyed the absurd antics of Beavis and Butthead when they were brought to my attention by my then 12 year old nephew.

It's all in the recipe, right Nab2? Slow and tubby, LOL. I'll tell you what this hobby really needs, new cliches.

"McIntosh has NEVER been considered a sound-first product."

Not too sure about that comment bdp24. I really don't know how many of the vintage Mac products you've listened to but Frank McIntosh and Gordon Gow were first rate engineers and real pioneers in serious audio designs.  Frank actually worked for Bell Labs early on. Some of their vintage gear is top rate as far as I'm concerned and rate favorably with Saul Marantz's designs.  It is as if to say that McIntosh was never serious equipment but geared primarily to build and aesthetic quality, I couldn't disagree more with THAT impression if that is what you're saying.

Thanks for your explanation bdp. While I never considered most McIntosh gear past the 70's "cutting edge" I really feel quite differently about some of their earlier products of the 50's and 60's. I've listened to some quite incredible Mac systems based on some of these earlier designs. One in particular back in the late 80's had me searching for a nice pair of MC60s which I located and still have to this day although not in regular use. While I DO agree that their early designs are rather conservative there is MUCH that can be done to improve performance. After all, they still have those marvelous unity coupled transformers!