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Integrating an Oppo 205 into system and need pre-amp and connection advice

This is going to be a long-ish post but I think some background will help so that I can hopefully get some good advice.

I'm getting an Oppo 205 (delivery set for July 5) and have lots of questions on "best" set-up.

Current equipment:
- Marantz 7005 as the processor/ switch hub for my system
- DirectTV, a dead Samsung BluRay Player, and a Roku3, along with an HDMI cable dangling for when I want to add a laptop to stream other video all attached to the Marantz
- TV is a Samsung HD flat screen
- Amps are a pair of Mark Levinson 436 monoblocks for L& R and a Krell Chorus 5200 for center and surrounds
- Speakers are B&W 800N L/R, B&W HTM1center, and in-ceiling for surround, with B&W WP1 mounted high in the corner of the wall-ceiling junction as rear
- Sub is an SVS PC-12 cylinder
- Harmony remote programmed for ease of use
- HDMI between components are Audioquest Carbon and to the TV an Audioquest Cinnamon
- Interconnects are all balanced XLR from BlueJeansCable
- Front L/C/R speaker wires are AudioArtCables SC-5SE with spades to Furutech locking banana

Thoughts about current set-up:
1) Since set-up I've noticed a distinct background hum (possible ground-loop) that I have isolated to be from the Marantz 7005. Some on-line research seems to show that it is a "known" issue with some of these units. I never dealt with this other than lifting the ground - dangerous I know as the lift occurs on the same circuit that the Krell Chorus 5200 is plugged into. Also, the 7005 does not have balanced L/R inputs - one of the reasons I purchased the Oppo.
2) I hate DirectTV and will be getting rid of it in August. However, as the house is in a rural and remote location I will need to get at least basic cable service to get any TV stations (not that I watch much that is not available through streaming apps these days)
3) The TV isn't going to change very soon, but will be changed to a 4K HDR version eventually
4) Surround speakers are not going to change - there's no way to do true surround speaker placement due to room configuration, and I'm hoping to move the majority of the set-up in the next year or so
5) Music listening has really fallen off due to the annoyance with the hum along with the dead disc player - the free Pandora stream is of such low quality that the hum does not take anything away from that casual listening at pretty low volume
6) Most use is video - streaming or via DirectTV
7) Surround is almost exclusively set to Dolby IIx(movie) - I've never been able to figure out the different modes available, and that's the mode that sounds the best for the videos/ movies/ programs we watch
8) I did the Audyssey calibration (several times) but turned it off as it sounded horrible when activated

Plan and questions:
1) I'm planning on hooking all sources (Roku, cable box, computer) to the Oppo 205 via HDMI input so that I can then simply run HDMI video to my TV and get all the processing for video done by the Oppo 205. It seems to me that this will remove any issues with any pre-amp units that do not pass thru HDR signals.
- Q: Does anyone know of a good HDMI splitter with remote control that can be programmed into a Harmony that will allow HDR and do NOT degrade the signal going INTO the Oppo?
- Q: Is my thinking "off" and I should be wiring the sources to the Oppo otherwise? 

2) I'd like a new Pre-amp to replace the Marantz 7005 that allows for XLR input for L/R, and 7.1 input. It seems that the Oppo has better DAC then most of the pre-amps out there.
- Q: If I use the HDMI audio out from the Oppo 205 will the future pre-amp do the "surround mode" processing?
- Q: If I use the 7.1 analog out from the Oppo 205 will there be any "surround mode" processing?

The options I've considered all come with their own pros and cons
- Marantz 8xxx series all are loaded with extra "stuff" - currently I do not want to be paying for Atmos, etc when I will not be using it. The "source direct" is not truly direct and therefore can color the sound (to my reading - PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong). But, the Marantz are really easy to install, and the user interface is well designed
- Krell Foundation sounds like the perfect option until one digs into how the UI is Atari era and not easy for a casual user to figure out AND I've read that the Foundation does not reliably "play well" with a Harmony

Do I even need a pre-amp/processor? The Oppo 205 seemingly can do everything I want it to do and I could change to unbalanced interconnects between the 7.1 analog output from the Oppo 205 into the Krell Chorus 5200
- Q: What would I "lose" if I went this route?
- Q: Could I use XLR for L/R and 5.1 for the surround.sub outputs on the Oppo 205?


I appreciate any and all input!
doctock993
10 responses Add your response
whart's avatar
whart
1,930 posts
 
I just plugged an older BDP 95 into a small HT system and a vintage hi-fi system in my front parlor by:
hdmi 1 out from the Oppo directly to the TV
hdmi 2 out from the Oppo to feed the HT pre-pro for sound
analog stereo outs from the Oppo to the preamp of the vintage hi-fi (which is not otherwise connected to the HT system in any way) to use the Oppo as a CD/SACD player. I expected some grounding hum by that analog connection as a result of joining two otherwise separate systems (small HT and vintage hi-fi), but I guess I lucked out.
I’m well out of it on HT these days though I had some big projection systems back in the day. How would you use the Oppo as a main system controller to eliminate the need for a pre-pro altogether? (I assume the 205 has some hdmi inputs?)
You sort of need to keep your wits about you with the wiring of these things and the various remotes. (I guess that’s why you use a universal remote?)
auxinput
1,538 posts
 

- Q: Does anyone know of a good HDMI splitter

Don’t you mean an HDMI switcher here?  Avoid anything from monoprice, HDMI switchers and splitters are complete junk.  Gefen is probably one of the most reliable and stable HDMI switchers, such as the Gefen EXT-UHD600-41 for about $300 or less.  It does have an IR remote, but I don’t know enough about Harmony to know if it has a “learning sensor”.

You can try connecting Oppo directly to Levinson/Krell amps and use digital volume control in Oppo.  You can run this way for as long as you want (assuming you were going to get HDMI switcher as above).  A HT processor will have different DACs and audio stages and could sound a little better.

Concerning Marantz 8xxx series.  Most of the consumer level stuff today (Marantz, Denon, etc.) will have all those extra bells and whistles.  Only the very high end (Krell, Bryston, Classe) do not really care about this.  So, the bells and whistles are extra and it’s fine if you don’t use them.  That being said, the Marantz 8xxx platform (such as 8802a) is an excellent platform with very large power supply and excellent level components. 

“Source Direct” just means that it bypasses any processing (which can include speaker crossover and speaker level adjustments).  It still will go through the analog stages of the HT processor.  If it’s a digital stream, it will be sent to the DACS and then the audio output stage.  Of course it can color the sound, just like any other preamp out there.  Nothing is truly transparent except for passive preamps (which is just a potentiometer or resistor ladder attenuator), but then you can have other problems such as impedance load and driving amplifier input stage.

Do I even need a pre-amp/processor?  The answer is not really. 

Yes, you can use XLR left/right to levinson for left and right speakers.  Then use the 7.1 RCA outputs for center/surrounds/sub.  The benefit of having an HT processor here is that you can potentially have XLR outputs for all channels.  Also, sometimes the audio stage in the HT Processor will be better than Oppo.  The Marantz 8802/8803/8805 may actually sound better because of their discrete analog output stages and massive power supply.  Krell Foundation may also have much better sound because of it's power supply (Krell does not use a switching power supply at all in its processor and has excellent power supply and audio stages).  The downside to Krell, obviously, is the user-interface and the Harmony remote problems you mentioned.  Though, you will probably have to make a decision on what is more important - sound quality or remote control convenience.

doctock993 OP
6 posts
 
I appreciate the feedback!

Since I thought about and wrote that initial post I spent the rest of the weekend reading as much on Audiogon and AVS Forum on the topics as I could find.
My current 7005 allows for 7.1 analog input, so I may try that as the "simplest" solution to start. Also, I do not have a 4KTV (yet) & the primary purpose of the Oppo was to improve audio for stereo.
Also, I may try XLR for L/R direct to the ML amps and RCA direct to the Krell and see what it sounds like for "HT" - as I currently do not do any room correction via the 7005.
Further, I've learned that I can get away with eliminating the DirectTV or cable box and go to complete streaming via Roku4k/ AppleTV4K box - therefore no need for a splitter. Video will just be direct to the TV.
Looks like the set up is going to get a bit more simple...

It would be nice if the "ideal" pre/amp existed that was just the audio portion for 7.1.  Any suggestions?
auxinput
1,538 posts
 

I've looked at and tested several different HT Processors.  In my own opinion, the Krell S1200 is the "ideal" preamp/processor, but only if you do modifications to it (adding in capacitors).  I detail this process towards the end of this thread:

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/is-dedicated-preamp-with-oppo-105-needed

That being said, this is an older HT Processor and does not support 4K at all.  With the added in power supply capacitors and a Furutech fuse, it is absolutely the most stunning HT audio stage you would likely find.  It will act as a pure analog 7.1 preamp if you want, and also do XLR outputs for this as well.  The S1200 are usually close to the $3k range nowadays.  The "S1200U 3D" is the latest version.

babyseaotter99
22 posts
 
auxinput:
The S1200 are usually close to the $3k range nowadays.  

For that price you can drop another $1000 and get a Foundation 4k UHD
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis91721-krell-foundation-4k-uhd-home-theater-processor-preamplifi...

plus it has tons of configuration options the s1200 doesn't have (I considered both and went with the Foundation.) Both are solid pieces of gear IMHO
auxinput
1,538 posts
 

Yes, that's true if you want 4K and latest HDMI support.  Yes, the Foundation has the automatic room correction system and some other things, but I actually think the S1200 is easier to configure and a bit more flexible with what you can configure.  My own opinion, that is. lol.

The S1200 is going to have a better analog stage than Foundation.  With the capacitor mod, there is nothing better in my mind. 

It's hard to say if a Marantz AV7703/AV8805 is going to be the same as Krell Foundation.  The Marantz could be better because of their discrete analog stages.  However, Marantz does use a rather slow op amp (slew rate) for the DAC I/V stages, which means the Foundation might end up having more slam and impact.  I think it would require a side-by-side comparison to actually see what would be better.

caphill
496 posts
 
What is your budget for a new pre pro (preamp processor)?
Besides the Krell Foundation and the Marantz AV8802/8805, I would highly recommend getting the following pre pros :

* Bryston SP3 ($9500 brand new). It lacks room EQ but excellent sounding preamp especially its two-channel performance for music or when used as a high end stereo preamp. It will sound way better than the Marantz AV8802 or 8805 and Krell Foundation for stereo playbacks for music. This pre pro is optimized for its stereo performance for music playbacks and feature wise it is pretty barebone.

* Classe Sigma SSP ($5k, $6k brand new) $5k for the original version of the Sigma SSP and $6k for the Sigma SSP Mkii version which includes upgraded HDMI board to accommodate 4K video pass through, hdcp 2.2 and hardware & software upgrades to accommodate decoding capabilities for Dolby Atmos & DTS-X.
This Classe Sigma SSP pre pro is optimized for stereo performance for listening to music or when used as a high end stereo preamp, just like the Bryston SP3. It is a very simple pre pro with minimal connectivities, no multi-channel 7.1 analog audio inputs, no legacy analog video connections but it has stereo analog audio inputs (XLR & RCA), USB inputs (rear & front), spdif, Toslink, HDMI, Ethernet. It is DLNA equipped processor. I would recommend using its rear USB input to stream and for digital download music files. This pre pro lacks an automatic room correction EQ software but instead Classe provides manual PEQ that requires proper tools equipments and knowledge on how to implement. It has XLR balanced outputs only for front L/R channels and single-ended outputs for the rest of the channels.
This is a true differential or fully balanced design preamp processor only for its front L/R channels and the rest of the channels are single-ended but it is optimized single-ended design.
Highly recommended. It will sound better than the Marantz AV8802 or 8805 especially when used as a stereo preamp for music playbacks.

* Classe SSP 800 (used). This pre pro has been discontinued last year. The original msrp was $9500 but nowadays it can be had for under $4k in used markets like Audiogon. The SSP 800 still remains as Classe’s flagship AV pre pro to date but it is somewhat obsolete and has been around for a while. It cannot pass through 4K video nor hdcp 2.2. Cannot decode Dolby Atmos, DTS-X. Its HDMI still runs on v1.4. But it is an excellent sounding pre pro for both surrounds (home theater) and stereo (music). It’s build quality is superb. It has multi-channel 7.1 analog audio inputs, legacy analog video connections, stereo analog audio inputs (XLR & RCA), HDMI, spdif, Toslink.
It has XLR balanced audio outputs for all channels including a subwoofer channel. This is a true differential of fully balanced design pre pro for all channels. It isn’t DLNA equipped, no USB inputs.
Like the Sigma SSP, the SSP 800 lacks of any automatic room correction EQ but has manual PEQ.
Highly recommended.

* NAD M17 or M17 v2 ($5500).
caphill
496 posts
 
I forgot to add the Anthem AVM60 pre pro ($3k). This is an absolute steal. Its ARC2 (Anthem Room Correction) is regarded one of the best and it really works very well and way outperforms the Audyssey Advance Pro used in the Marantz AV8802/8805. 
The Anthem AVM60 with its ARC2 engaged will outperform the Marantz AV8802 when used for surround sound movies (home theater) and with the Audyssey Advance Pro engaged in the Marantz AV8802.

However, the ARC2 in the Anthem AVM60 is difficult to use and implement correctly whereas the Audyssey are easy to use and pretty much plug n play kinda thing.
With the Anthem's ARC2 built in the AVM60 I would suggest that you hire a pro or your Anthem dealer to perform calibration for you. 

And the Anthem AVM60 stereo performance for music playbacks is probably on par with the Marantz AV8802. Basic sound quality wise both Classe and Bryston SP3 are superior especially when used as a stereo preamp for 2ch music playbacks than the Anthem AVM60 or the Marantz AV8802/8805. The Bryston SP3 and both Classe processors can also serve as high end analog stereo preamp. 
The NAD M17 and the Krell Foundation will also sound better than the Marantz AV8802 or the Anthem AVM60 when used as a stereo preamp for 2ch music playbacks.

But the Marantz has more bells & whistles than the Anthem AVM60. The AVM60 isn't equipped with video processor/upscaler whereas all Marantz processors are equipped with fancy video processor/upscaler.
The Bryston SP3 and both Classe SSP 800 & Sigma SSP aren't equipped with video processor/upscaler either. 

All being said, having all these preamp processors will give you better audio performances than using a built-in preamp processor (volume control) section in the Oppo 205 IMO. 
eternal08
6 posts
 
If you are looking for a solid pre amp, look at the Yamaha cxa-5100, I have that and the matching mxa-5000 amp and I could not be happier. The thing is a beast, it weighs a lot, great power supply, 11 balanced outputs and well and rca, sub outputs are also either balanced or rca. lots and lots of toys and gadgets to play with, works very well for streaming, the app for phone or tablet is great and easy to work with. It also has an amazing phone input. I am running 7.2.4 Dolby Atmos setup, the Yamaha sounds great. And it’s not much money compared to others. 
The yapo room correction gets the speakers within an inch distance and angle, it does a great job on  calibration with the exception of the sub. However the anthem does a better job with room correction but is more money and has less bells and whistles, sounds just as good though. 
i guess it’s a matter of preference. Once you get into the separates world the sky is the limit and they all make really good stuff. 
doctock993 OP
6 posts
 
I appreciate all the input!

Narrowed the search to Krell Foundation and Classe SSP-800.
No interest in the Yamaha/ Marantz/ Denon with all the extra bells and whistles that I have no interest in using. Also, a little "burnt" on my current Marantz 7005 that has added a horrendous "hum" to the system (ground loop vs internal issue noted on some units).
The Classe Sigma is way too limited on input/output connectors for me to consider it.
I have not read great things about Anthem, and have never had a good "feel" for Bryston.

At present, I'm unfortunately 1200+mi away from my system. I plan on trying audio direct in to my Marantz (has analog input for 7.1 via RCA) and then try connecting directly to my amps (mixed XLR and RCA) from the Oppo 205 after I get back in September. I'll be eliminating the DirectTV box and simplifying the video side of the system at the same time - so any chance that the cable wire/ phone line/ extra wifi box are causing the "hum" will be eliminated.


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