@ghosthouse - you could always contact Golden Sound directly, via CONTACT on their web site.
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If I'm not mistaken I was the first to employ the springs and roller bearings combo that Barry Diament is obviously so fond of. That was about twenty years ago. No biggie.
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My latest set up: DH Cones under a medium size 14x10 glass bowl filled with 20 lb of perfectly smooth glass microbeads, and on top of the glass mirobeads a 12" glass tile that supports a constrained layer damper and on top of that a small 6x6 aluminum slab. The aluminum slab has four super soft cryo’d steel springs on top that support a 6x6 glass tile which serves as the top plate. This whole "Woody the Woodpecker" iso stand isolates a portable Sony Walkman cassette player or a Sony Walkman CD Player. A Shun Mook Mpingo disc and a large DH Cone sit atop the large glass tile. Better safe than sorry.
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As far as cones go, their effectiveness is directly proportional to their hardness on the Mohs hardness scale. Thus you’ll find super hard DH Cones are at the top of the food chain and softer materials like carbon fiber, brass, steel and aluminum are farther down the food chain. DH Cone ceramics being 9.5 on the Mohs scale (where diamond is 10.0). Brass and most other typical cone metals are down around 3-4. For non-cone type footers it's a whole different ballgame as their method of operation varies.
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Do you mean the DH site or Golden Sound? The DH (Diamond Hardness) Cones are sold by Golden Sound. |
ghosthouse
Not trying to be contentious but isn’t the question of DH Cones vs Herbie’s Tenderfeet also a question about the relative merits of vibration draining vs vibration damping/isolation?
I’ve read at least one "expert" recommendation to use both: a hard cone (brass in this particular article) under a component (point facing down) to drain vibration into a wood plinth and a softer elastomeric footer between the wood plinth and the equipment rack shelf to provide vibration damping/isolation.
>>>>A valid point. However, it is actually the case that when DH Cones are used in BOTH locations, under the component AND under the plinth, the sound is even better. This is not to say damping doesn't have it's place as capacitors, CD transports, transformers, chassis, etc. should be damped.
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The reason both the metal balls and the curved based should be as hard as possible is because friction should be reduced to as close to zero as possible. This is why you see tungsten and cryo'd steel used for the balls and cups. I suspect NASA grade ceramics would work well, too. Remember, isolation can be defined as the ability to move freely in the direction of choice. In the case of roller bearings that means freedom of motion in the horizontal plane and twist (rotational) direction and to the event the ball can travel up long the curved surface of the cup in the other two rotational directions. The roller bearings don’t provide much of anything for the vertical direction, hence their use with springs. But five directions out of six is not chopped liver.
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Just to note that’s it’s highly unlikely DH Cones would be found on any random component, stock or otherwise, unless they were glued there (unlikely), as there would be no way to drill a hole in the bottom of the DH Cone since, you know, it’s the next hardest material to diamond. DH Cones. Accept no substitutes.
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I wasn’t referring to smoothness but to hardness. Smooth is obviously good, too. The surfaces shouldn't be all knarly. 😀
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lowrider57
Geoffkait: it’s the next hardest material to diamond. DH Cones. Accept no substitutes.
So funny... (if you've seen the website).
>>>> Huh? What? How so, Stringbean?
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lak
Regarding the DH Cones:
Why is it suggested on the DH site to have the rear two cones with the larger base down (on the shelf) but the front cone reversed with the smaller end down and the larger base under the component?
What I found is that tips of all DH cones should always point down. Same for any cones. It doesn’t make sense to point any tips up since that would tend to prevent energy from escaping the top plate or component as well as transmit structural vibration more efficiently. I.e., the diode effect. The other part of the suggestion you refer to that I disagree with is that the third cone be placed so as to make the component slightly unstable.
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lowrider57
It’s the marketing that is funny to me;
"so advanced it’s used in the aerospace industry and by NASA...
almost as hard as diamond."
Not sure why you find that humorous since it is the extreme hardness that makes the DH Cones more effective than the competing products. It is the material’s hardness that determines the efficiency speed of energy transfer. Thus, a relatively softer material - even metal - allows energy to be stored or reflected. The particular ceramic used in DH Cones is actually the next hardest material to diamond, and is much harder than brass, aluminum or steel, even tempered steel, as anyone can plainly see on the non linear Mohs scale of hardness, as I’ve noted previously. Nothing funny about that.
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The fatter jumbo is quite good but the more ballistic shaped Super is better. Usually three cones will be fine. It depends on what the underside of the turntable looks like. I can imagine four might be more stable or there might not be convenient places to use only three.
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The DH cones can all support enormous loads, no problem. I have probably a little more experienced with DH cones than the average bear so I think I can with complete confidence you’ll find the DH cones beat the pants off brass cones.Large size DH cones are the most cost effective but if you want the very best do yourself a big favor and get the Super DH cones. There really is no substitute. |
The problem with using something between the DH Cone and the component or under the cones is that whatever material you use can and usually does affect the sound. While I do favor cork for some applications as a damper of micro vibrations I avoid using anything between the cone and component or under the cone since whatever you try will slow up the energy that exits the component via the cones. Even the thin adhesive backed paper disc that came with DH Cones a long time ago interfered with the sound and had to be removed. For under the cones those metal discs with dimple in the center might be OK.
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The thing about two points down and one point up is way out of date. All points should be down. All Points up or any with points up hurts the sound relative to all points down. The cones act like quasi mechanical diodes. If the Amp is heavy you might need two people. Place Jumbos under the amp one at a time, points down. Then place a DH Square under each cone one at a time. It’s probably obvious the dimple in center of the DH Square is what the tip of the Jumbo rests in.
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Believe it or not the paper label should be removed from any and all DH Cones as it degrades the sound a smidgen. It has to do with the whole idea that the interface needs to be very hard. The only exception I can think of are DH Squares, which are not particularly hard in the extreme sense of the word. |
agriculturist wrote,
"@geoffkait, since you are quite familiar with the Golden Sound cones, another question for you please. Are the super jumbo cones OK or even better than the smaller GS cones for less heavy components such as a DAC which weighs say 20-30 lbs? I have a second set of these super jumbos on their way to me and I wonder whether I should put them under the DAC or under my pair of stacked BPT balanced power conditioning/isolation units. I am wondering whether I would be better off with one of the smaller cones for the DAC."
Hello, it’s a little complicated to answer those questions but I will give it a shot. The DH Cones are all extremely hard and strong so the load you put on them, even the SMALL size, is not really an issue. It really all comes down to the cost as to which ones to use. The reason I say that is the SUPER DH CONES are really the best sounding, even noticeably better than the Jumbos, which are actualy the same basic size, the SUPER DH CONE having a more ballistic shape. I always used SUPER DH CONES for critical applications, I.e., under CD Players, DACS, speakers, amps, and under ISOLATION PLATFORMS, etc. if I could afford to. If funds were tight, though, since these cones ain't cheap, I’d default to LARGE DH CONES, the size just below Jumbo on the price menu. The LARGE DH CONES are a great cost-effective cone. The SMALL DH CONE is a very good value for general purpose non-critical applications OR when funds are limited. I am a big fan of some other, overlooked places for SUPER DH CONES such as on top of speakers and Tube Traps. I also strongly suggest using cones under large couches, bookshelves and other big furniture.
geoff kait
machina dynamica |
Agriculturalist, I never compared the DH squares to the other thing.
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And the same thing can sound different to different people. It's all so confusing. 😳 |
