Jazz for aficionados

Alex, presently, we are discussing "Bebop" specifically and not jazz in general.

Rok's major complaint is when you talk about jazz currently, anything goes; it's kind of like "Mulligan stew", throw anything in the pot and call it "Mulligan stew".

Alex, I thought those posts to be good examples of "Afro-Jazz", while what we were discussing was Afro input into the origination of "Bebop", which is different.

What you have posted is the Afro inclusion after the music had been developed, and it's very good. Diz has included the Afro from Brazil; Bahia specifically.

Peter King made a nice tribute to "Bird".

What does Voodoo have to do with "Bebop"?

Did I get a surprise today; Les Liaisons Dangereuses 1960 (Original Soundtrack), came today and it was 180 gram vinyl. This is the only orange colored LP I've ever seen, the biggest surprise was 0 record noise. They also sent a catalog which had nothing but the classic killers in it.

Funny story about Monk and Miles; Monk didn't take no crap off of anybody under any circumstances, him and Miles had some kind of minor dispute. (having a dispute with Miles wasn't the hardest thing to do). On the record "Bag's Groove", there is a cut where I make the same mistake every time, I say to myself,"That's Monk on piano", wrong, it's Horace Silver. The reason I make this mistake is because Miles told Horace to "Play like Monk right here", and Horace did so well that I still make the same mistake.

But the story get's even funnier, because Miles said he didn't want Monk's "Plinkin and plunkin", and evidently changed his mind before the day was out, because Horace imitates Monk's "Plinkin and plunkin".

I know you got this record; pick out who's playing piano on each cut.




Enjoy the music.

While fishin in lake "you tube" I caught a nice pair of swingers who can scat like you wouldn't believe;


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SX_hXkdoWEg

Enjoy the music.

Rok, you're hard to please, but I ain't quit yet, how's this?

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eco4z98nIQY

Jimmy Blanton was an influential American jazz double bassist. Blanton is credited with being the originator of more complex pizzicato and arco bass solos in a jazz context than previous bassists.

Born in Chattanooga, Tennessee, Blanton originally learned to play the violin, but took up the bass while at Tennessee State University, performing with the Tennessee State Collegians from 1936 to 1937, and during the vacations with Fate Marable. After leaving university to play full-time in St Louis with the Jeter-Pillars Orchestra (with whom he made his first recordings), he joined Duke Ellington's band in 1939.

Though he stayed with Ellington for only two years, Blanton made an incalculable contribution in changing the way the double bass was used in jazz. Previously the double bass was rarely used to play anything but quarter notes in ensemble or solos but by soloing on the bass more in a 'horn like' fashion, Blanton began sliding into eighth- and sixteenth-note runs, introducing melodic and harmonic ideas that were totally new to jazz bass playing. His virtuosity put him in a different class from his predecessors, making him the first true master of the jazz bass and demonstrating the instrument's unsuspected potential as a solo instrument. Ellington put Blanton front-and-center on the bandstand nightly, unheard of for a bassist at the time. Such was his importance to Ellington's band at the time, together with the tenor saxophonist Ben Webster, that it became known as the Blanton–Webster band. Blanton also recorded a series of bass and piano duets with Ellington and played in the "small group" sessions led by Barney Bigard, Rex Stewart, Johnny Hodges, and Cootie Williams in 1940-41.

In 1941, Blanton was diagnosed with tuberculosis, cutting short his tenure with Ellington. His last recording session was cut on September 26, 1941 in Hollywood. Blanton died the following year after retiring to a sanatorium in California, aged 23.

Jimmy Blanton is a bassist I've been hearing about since I can remember, but he was before my time; meaning jazz time when I started collecting records. Since I only collected AB records (AB stands for "After Bird") I don't know if I have him in my collection, but that can be remedied.

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrvHckvHj90


                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPB7hBU6oj0




Here are two cuts by Mr. Blanton, You be the judge.


Enjoy the music

****I think it’s possible, in the middle of playing improvised music, to play a few notes that have been played before in the same order in another popular tune. Intention would depend on the length of the passage played. A few notes might be an unintentional, subconscious ’quote’, too many notes, and you are playing Mona Lisa.****

I vowed not to return to this thread, but merely to observe. There is no way I could pass this up, especially after Rok made one of the most reasoned and true statements of his career, and this is your response.

"Sorry, way off base. If you care to have reasonable and intelligent
dialogue about this subject let me know."

When "Bird", the worlds greatest improviser ever, quite often threw in a few notes from some well known popular song, unintentional, or intentional, and you said Rok's statement was unreasonable; just who made you judge, jury, and executioner, of this thread?



Enjoy the music.

This is all about "Doing the Hucklebuck"; take your choice of artist, and find it on "you tube"


    http://lyricsplayground.com/alpha/songs/t/thehucklebuck.shtml


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qg8GgQojTV4


This is "Bird" doing "Now's The Time"


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryNtmkfeJk4


Notice the similarity between the beginning of "Now's the Time", and "Do The Hucklebuck"


"Wiggle like a snake, waddle like a duck
That's the way you do it when you do the Hucklebuck"

When you sing these lyrics, you'll notice the similarity between these two tunes. This is in regard to Rok and Frogman's debate; how they settle it is up to them, I'm not in it.


Enjoy the music.

Since "Bird" came out with "Now's The Time" before the "Huckle Buck", I believe that determined who copied who; however, maybe those notes were "unconscious".


"Now's the Time" (Parker), a 1945 composition by Charlie Parker.



Enjoy the music

Frogman, while DeJohnette's druming is quite entertaining, I much prefer Chico Hamilton on this tune with the line up of; Chico Hamilton - drums, Buddy Collette - tenor saxophone, alto saxophone, flute, clarinet, Fred Katz - cello, and Jim Hall guitar. What have you to say about this version of that beautiful tune?


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF_Kwdmg1Cg


Enjoy the music.

Acman, The very first record I wore out was "Clifford Brown, and Max Roach", he was my favorite drummer for ages.


Enjoy the music.

Frogman, if you took no pleasure in prefacing your comment the way you did, then why did you preface it that way?

I merely asked you to compare the drumming, you Frogman are the one who delights in this antagonistic dialog, because if you didn't, you would not start it, for example; this is the way you responded to Rok,s very reasonable statement.

"Sorry, way off base. If you care to have reasonable and intelligent
dialogue about this subject let me know."

And when I presented solid proof that you were wrong about Rok's statement, you never even responded, do you expect me to overlook that? I'm sure Rok is still waiting for a response, I know I am.

In case you have forgotten, this was Rok's statement:


****I think it’s possible, in the middle of playing improvised music, to play a few notes that have been played before in the same order in another popular tune. Intention would depend on the length of the passage played. A few notes might be an unintentional, subconscious ’quote’, too many notes, and you are playing Mona Lisa.****

Rok's very reasoned statement was presented in concrete form in regard to Charlie Parker's tune, "Now's The Time" and "Doing the Hucklebuck". I'll give you the opportunity of ignoring it again. Below is Bird's tune.


            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryNtmkfeJk4


Now we have "Doing The Hucklebuck";



        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5X9lOWg7fNM


This time it's done by Frank Sinatra; maybe that will help you to respond.

I get a kick out of your responses that say; "I can do it to you, but you can't do it to me"; wanna bet.




Enjoy the music.


 

Frogman, if you are going to correct someone, you had better get your facts straight; especially if that someone is "Orpheus".

The "Forest Flower" I presented was the one with "The Chico Hamilton Quintet"; a photograph of the players is on the cover of the album: Chico Hamilton is striding across the cover, and Buddy Collette is kneeling with his horns in front of him, while Jim Hall, has his guitar on his knee; that's just the top row of photographs, the rest of the players are in the second row.

   
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF_Kwdmg1Cg



Here it is again, for your pleasure; this time, check the photo's on the album cover.




Enjoy the music.

Now that you have seen one side of my personality, I would like to show the other side; there is nothing I like more than sharing my favorite tunes with you, and I guarantee they are killers. Here is John Coltrane with "Nature Boy". I know you've heard this standard by many artists many times, but until you've heard JC play it, you ain't heard nothing.



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GozbmI5-6Zo


John Coltrane – tenor saxophone and soprano saxophone
McCoy Tyner – piano
Jimmy Garrison – double bass
Art Davis – double bass
Elvin Jones – drums


This is "Trane", live; and there is a wide gulf between JC recording on a studio session and "live". What you hear on this recording, is what you would have heard if you had been on the set; maybe even longer.




Enjoy the music.

No Frogman, we can not stop; not until you respond to the discussion between you and Rok.


Enjoy the music.

Frogman, even if the "you tube" was wrong, my statement was about the drummers; this was what the major conversation was about, and you didn't respond to that; you never respond to anything, you just go on and on like "The Energizer Bunny".


Enjoy the music.

Frogman, I must compliment you on your resourcefulness; I have that very same CD, it was released in 64, and that was when I met the love of my life.

We used to meet at a small dimly lit lounge, and we both fell in love with "Forest Flower"; it was on the juke box and we played it over and over. Since that time, I always think of her when I hear "Forest Flower".

As you know, when one is a connoisseur of the very best jazz, it should be in one's collection if it falls into that category; after all, that's what this thread is about.


Enjoy the music.

Well Frogman, it seems that you can go on and on like that great "Energizer Bunny". Anytime someone disagrees with you, they are starting an argument.

I've been down this road with you before, but now I have learned that one must have the patience of "Job"; dealing with you has given me that patience.

To refresh your memory; the incident in question, posed "Now Is The Time" by "Bird", and "Doing The Hucklebuck" by anyone. Since this comparison gives such wide latitude, it's very easy for you to respond, but you wont because that would bring your "Omnipotents" into question.

As I stated previously, I'll quit this line of dialog after you have responded to that conversation, but not until.


Enjoy the music.

In case anyone thinks I'm making a mountain out of a molehill, they can go back through the posts on this thread and see how many times Frogman has acknowledged any mistake that he's made.

He can chide someone else for making an error, even when that error may not involve the substance of the dispute. Just recently he derided me for quoting a wrong "you tube", although that still didn't get to the substance of the post, which was the drumming, plus it was an entirely different group on my post; that was the substance of my post, but he failed to acknowledge it. As Rok put it, that is his "Modus Operandi".

Since I'm in a "Trane" mood I'm going to go with one of my most favorite tunes "Invitation". Let's try the vocal by Dinah Washington, followed by Trane. This show must go on.


                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyp1yvSBq5I




                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8eYVN8hAlU


Enjoy the music.

Rok, waiting for Frogman to change is like waiting for a leopard to change his spots or for hades to freeze over; consequently, I don't think I've got that long to live. I'm going on vacation, and you can keep an eye on him till I get back.


Enjoy the music.

Ghosthouse, that reminded me of when I was on this old steam locomotive puffing across the Congo; I can still see the natives waving as we pass and elephants screeching in the distance.

"Wikiman" I have lived jazz for my entire life, I don't need any musicians to tell me about it; especially bourgeois musicians, regardless how accomplished. I knew African American musicians who could not even read music, but they were able to express the deepest pains of a race of people who at one time did not even belong to themselves.

Pryso, that tune was definitely not mainstream, and I was just curious to know if anybody liked it beside me. That was when Don was in his Buddhist phase.

Serge Chaloff is often overlooked, but I have appreciated him as a sideman on various records.

Rok, your post hit the nail dead on the head; there is nothing I can add or subtract.

"I just thank God it's all over," said Aaron, who endured months of media interviews, near-constant scrutiny, and death threats and hate mail. He had hired a bodyguard, needed to find temporary living quarters in Atlanta, and registered under a false name at hotels on the road.

Although I have never been into any kind of music other than jazz, Chuck Berry has been with me all my life; or every since school when all the other kids were into Rock and Roll, which meant Chuck Berry's "Maybellene".

I recall sneaking into the back door of the "Cosmopolitan", when I was 16, which was a club in E. St. Louis he played often. The only thing I remember is "women", all shapes and colors; where ever there was Chuck Berry, there was women.

While Chuck Berry traveled all over the world, St. Louis was his home, and he always came back.



        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opG44Eqea6g


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1eI4EH-DRg


When somebody like Chuck Berry dies, a person doesn't realize how much Chuck Berry was a part of that person's (my) life as he aged through the years; my eyes are filled with tears now, but I know we shall meet again in a better place.

"Teenage romance and big, fast, over the top American cars. I will always be thankful I was young during those days."

You got that right, I was just thinking of the beautiful "Venita"; those girls will always stay ever so beautiful in your memory; I feel like I can go back there and she will be no less beautiful, still 16.

But I want a different car every other day.

Frogman, I really appreciated the comments on your last post. Pepper Adams is my favorite baritone sax man, and I had to play those cuts twice. Your bass player has eluded me in the past, consequently, I don't have anything meaningful to say about him.

My collection is full of Pat Metheny; he hit's the ball out of the park one time, and then fouls out the next time; but all in all I like Pat Metheny.

Next we'll be comparing Miles quintets to Art Blakey's jazz messengers.



Enjoy the music.

I decided to play a game called; Miles Davis vs The Jazz Messengers. I can't see why everyone is so "ga ga" over Miles, when Blakey's Jazz Messengers had the best music and musicians by far.

Let's investigate; Jazz Messengers were an influential jazz combo that existed for over thirty-five years beginning in the early 1950s as a collective, and ending when long-time leader and founding drummer Art Blakey died in 1990. Blakey led or co-led the group from the outset. "Art Blakey" and "Jazz Messengers" became synonymous over the years, though Blakey did lead non-Messenger recording sessions and played as a sideman for other groups throughout his career.

Yes sir, I'm gonna to stay with the youngsters. When these get too old, I'm gonna get some younger ones. Keeps the mind active.

Art Blakey, A Night at Birdland, Vol.2 (CD),
The group evolved into a proving ground for young jazz talent. While veterans occasionally re-appeared in the group, by and large, each iteration of the Messengers included a lineup of new young players. Having the Messengers on one's resume was a rite of passage in the jazz world, and conveyed immediate bona fides.

Many Messenger alumni went on to become jazz stars in their own right, such as: Lee Morgan, Benny Golson, Wayne Shorter, Freddie Hubbard, Bobby Timmons, Curtis Fuller, Cedar Walton, Chuck Mangione, Keith Jarrett, Joanne Brackeen, Woody Shaw, Wynton Marsalis, Branford Marsalis, Terence Blanchard, Donald Harrison and Mulgrew Miller.


Miles Davis's quintets:   Miles Davis Quintet was an American jazz band from 1955 to early 1969 led by Miles Davis. The quintet underwent frequent personnel changes toward its metamorphosis into a different ensemble in 1969. Most references pertain to two distinct and relatively stable bands: the First Great Quintet from 1955 to 1958; and the Second Great Quintet from late 1964 to early 1969, Davis being the only constant throughout.


1 First Great Quintet/Sextet (1955-58)
2 Second Great Quintet (1964-68)
3.1 First great quintet (1955-58)
3.2 Second great quintet (1964-69)

In the summer of 1955, Davis performed a noted set at the Newport Jazz Festival, and had been approached by Columbia Records executive George Avakian, offering a contract with the label if he could form a regular band. Davis assembled his first regular quintet to meet a commitment at the Café Bohemia in July with Sonny Rollins on tenor saxophone, Red Garland on piano, Paul Chambers on bass, and Philly Joe Jones on drums. By the autumn, Rollins had left to deal with his heroin addiction, and later in the year joined the hard bop quintet led by Clifford Brown and Max Roach.

At the recommendation of drummer Jones, Davis replaced Rollins with John Coltrane, beginning a partnership that would last five years and finalizing the Quintet's first line-up. Expanded to a sextet with the addition of Cannonball Adderley on alto saxophone in 1958, the First Great Quintet was one of the definitive hard bop groups along with the Brown-Roach Quintet and the Jazz Messengers, recording the Columbia albums Round About Midnight, Milestones, and the marathon sessions for Prestige Records resulting in five albums collected on The Legendary Prestige Quintet Sessions.

In mid-1958, Bill Evans replaced Garland on piano and Jimmy Cobb replaced Jones on drums, but Evans only lasted about six months, in turn replaced by Wynton Kelly as 1958 turned into 1959. This group backing Davis, Coltrane, and Adderley, with Evans returning for the recording sessions, recorded Kind of Blue, considered "one of the most important, influential and popular albums in jazz". Adderley left the band in September 1959 to pursue his own career, returning the line-up to a quintet. Coltrane departed in the spring of 1960, and after interim replacements Jimmy Heath and Sonny Stitt, Davis plus Kelly, Chambers, and Cobb continued through 1961 and 1962 with Hank Mobley on tenor sax.


Second Great Quintet (1964-68)
Mobley, Kelly, Chambers, and Cobb all left Davis by the end of 1962, and during 1963 he struggled to maintain a steady line-up. By the late spring, he had hired the core of the Second Quintet with Herbie Hancock on piano, Ron Carter on bass, and wunderkind Tony Williams on drums. Initially with George Coleman or Sam Rivers on tenor sax, the final piece of the puzzle would arrive in late 1964 with saxophonist Wayne Shorter.

The performance style of the Second Great Quintet was often referred to by Davis as "time, no changes", incorporating elements of free jazz without completely surrendering to the approach, allowing the five men to contribute to the group as equals rather than as a leader and sidemen peeling off unrelated solos. This band recorded the albums E.S.P., Miles Smiles, Sorcerer, Nefertiti, Miles in the Sky, and Filles de Kilimanjaro, and the live set considered by The Penguin Guide to Jazz to be their crowning achievement, The Complete Live at the Plugged Nickel 1965.


Discography is where the rubber meets the road, or the sound reaches the ear; or any other euphemism you can invent for evaluating which one is the best.


Let's compare 55-58 "Jazz Messengers"; Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers - At the Cafe Bohemia, Vol. 2 (11/23/55)
Horace Silver - Horace Silver and the Jazz Messengers (11/13/54, 2/6/55)
Horace Silver and Art Blakey / Sabu (10/9/52, 11/23/53)                                 Art Blakey - A Night at Birdland, Vol. 1 (2/21/54)
Art Blakey - A Night at Birdland, Vol. 2                                                 Art Blakey - Orgy in Rhythm, Volume 1 (3/7/57)                                           Art Blakey - Orgy in Rhythm, Volume 2 (3/7/57)



Now we'll go to Miles 55-58
First great quintet (1955-58)
Miles Davis — trumpet
John Coltrane — tenor saxophone
Red Garland — piano
Paul Chambers — bass
Philly Joe Jones — drums
increased to Sextet in 1958 with Cannonball Adderly — alto saxophone
 


Now that I've thrown my 50 cents worth, you can throw in your 2 cents worth.






Enjoy the music

Rok, you need some blasting powder and a drill.

More Mulligan;


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSWWpLYBT7A



        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwAAjnqdB4w


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwAAjnqdB4w



And a little Wardell Grey;



            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vs2IBIc_9DM

"West Coast" is so "Way out"; listen to "Bernies Tune" with Hampton Hawes, Wardel Grey and crew, they interject a little West Coast Bop that's "retro", but timeless never the less.

What do you think of this?


      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LA0wRBzRKY&list=PLtOfH9YvD9J7McvWEiqH44_jUWvWYVA2K

Bop that sounds like music, and just any run of the mill sound called Bop are two entirely different things; "Bird's" Bop is listenable.

Here's Blakey and the messengers from the album "Night In Tunisia", "So Tired" is the name of this one


                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEFaBKok1jg


My favorite "Nica's Dream", is this dream  with Horace Silver on piano.


                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Lju13U1zEE


OK you Miles fans, beat these by Blakey and The Messengers.





Enjoy the music.

LAY OFF THE "WIKIMAN" JUICE.

Frogman, as you know, I have been prone to exageration ; but not much, especially when we put a short time frame on this, and end it at 1965. There is a very good reason for the time span; after that we began to get into what is, and what is not jazz; example, I saw Miles in Chicago with a buckskin vest that even had fringes on it. The music was a rehearsal for "Bitches Brew"; since there was a fellow from New York with us, and as everyone knows New Yorkers know everything, so I asked him. "What the...."?

"That's Miles new thing, group, music and all", was his response.

That was in the late 60's, after that, jazz changed forever, but it often left me on the sidelines.

"Nerfertiti" does not float my boat, but since there is no one else in my boat but me, that might not be highly relevant in the larger scheme of things. I think we should compare the two discography's between 55 and 65; that will specify the universe of where I'm coming from.

"Bobby Timmons" and "Horace Silver" were better than anybody Miles ever had on piano. Although Bobby Timmons didn't live long enough, his compositions withstood the test of time; "Moanin, Dis here, Dat Dere, and So Tired" have been used over and over by many others. The same could be said for Horace Silver; I don't have enough room for his compositions.

Lee Morgan was better than Miles on trumpet, he just didn't live long enough. Curtis Fuller on trombone was (is) fantastic; thank God he's still around, age 81.

Taking "Nefertiti" over "Nica's Dream" means you lose by a knock out; we'll have to let others decide that, but according to me, it's not even a contest.

As important as KOB was, there is no way it was "that important"; to put KOB up against all the fantastic albums that have been made since that time is absurd; "they" say a lot of absurd things.

"Moanin" by Blakey, has the same status as KOB with hard core jazz fans, and we don't claim to speak for nobody but us.

Frogman, we have fundamental different tastes in jazz; it's a "subjective" difference, there is nothing "objective" about music, because my normal reaction to Classical is "Huh", but since you're a classical musician, and many jazz musicians can go back and forth plus, Nina Simone was a classical pianist before she was a jazz vocalist, I'm sure you will find my stance unique, but that's the nature of "subjective" differences.





Enjoy the music.

Frogman, calling this better than that, amplifies the subjectivity of this music. "Better" is a bad choice of words. Although the difference between Bill Evans, and Bobby Timmons is as wide as the Pacific Ocean, "better" is a word that could be left out of the discussion.

Bobby Timmons music projects a philosophical, and sociological point of view, that is probably foreign to Bill Evans, and vice versa. The fact that both of these individuals can strike a piano key, and say more than a short story is incredible; however, just as frequency is all important, whenever music is sent and received by transmitter and receiver; so it is by musician and audience; they both have to be on the same wavelenth.


No one has sent messages that have encompassed the depth and volume of Bobby Timmons music. People who can neither read nor write, understand Bobby Timmons musical messages. Bill Evans music is beautiful and eloquent, and comparing the two is apples and oranges.

Those eloquent discussions in that documentary were an attempt to come to some "objective" conclusion in the "subjective" world of music. They would have had to include the music of "Charles Mingus" in order to bring it closer to the truth. " Fables Of Faubus" is every bit as dynamite, as the tune "Kind Of Blue"


                                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48eAYnfgrAo


As a matter of fact, the inclusion of "Mingus Ah Um Charles Mingus" would have made the discussion more objective, and less like a "Miles Davis fan club"





Enjoy the music.


           

Here's a Brubeck album that doesn't get a lot of mention;


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ-2z1-_io0&index=3&list=PLk5SVLXcQrR5GY-LAcbvh2Of4jwCpSKSy

The boss of the baritone sax was Pepper Adams, he could do "hard bop" on that big horn, the same as "Bird" could do 'be bop' on his  alto.

He's on top albums with Donald Byrd, Charley Mingus, and Lee Morgan (Am I leaving anybody out?)


Donald Byrd "Curro's"


          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNk3qtzNM_s


Mingus "Moanin";


              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__OSyznVDOY


Lee Morgan, "A Night in Tunisia";


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo0P2YugUnU


Pepper isn't on this one, but I couldn't resist it;


        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CutrIZzTJl0



     

Gene Ammons is my pick of the litter. 

Frogman, I am subjective to the Nth degree when it comes to selecting and listening to jazz music. If I detect 1 objective hair on my body, I will pull it out.

My musician friend who lived with me that Summer, never practiced (that Summer). What was an improvising, performing jazz musician going to practice? He didn't just start playing jazz yesterday.

Although I had been a fan of his eight years before he moved into my apartment, I had never heard the music he was currently playing. I was truly mesmerized at each performance, never the same music. We never talked music before or after the performance. He enjoyed telling me about his life as a professional jazz musician, and I enjoyed listening.

That was 40 years ago. When I reflect back to that time, I know there was something intensely personal between him and his "new" music. When he was on stage, he went to that place where jazz musicians go; that's where it's at, either you got it or you don't; he just let his fingers fly trusting his inner muse, there was nothing "objective" about that.

I recall that he played center stage at that big 4th of July extravaganza we have under the arch every year here in St. Louis, and got rave reviews. I didn't attend, I can't stand being in the midst of a bazillion people.

The only thing I've got to personally compare, is when I went out on the tennis court and hit perfect backhands and forehands. I wasn't thinking about anything, I just kept my eye on the ball. Of course I had spent years playing and practicing before this occurred, but it would not have occurred if I had been "objectively" conscious of what I was doing.

I witnessed on TV, the best game Isaih Thomas (Detroit Pistons) ever played in his life. When he got so tired that he barely got across the half court line, he threw the ball up, and nothing but net; he couldn't miss.

After the game news people were all over him; he said everything was like in slow motion and he was in what they call, the zone.

Here is where I'm coming from, if you're going to be a star jazz musician, you have got to quit thinking "objectively" about what you're doing; either you got it or you don't, but you can not get it by practicing (when you're a performing musician) That might be just the thing for a "classical" musician, but not an improvising jazz musician.

Of course if you're not performing, you have to practice; but an improvising jazz musicians performance has to be instantaneous; otherwise it sounds "stilted", and that's not good in jazz.


Enjoy the music.

Frogman, Improvise means to create and perform spontaneously or without preparation.  Improvise comes from the Latin word improvisus, meaning "unforeseen, unexpected." Think about when something unexpected happens to you — you have no choice but to react in the moment, or improvise.

I'm sure he, (meaning my musician friend), practiced so much that he could visualize his instrument in his sleep during his formative years. Why do so many musicians play with their eyes closed? That's because they don't need to even see the thing their playing, even when it's as complex as a "Koto". I saw June Kuramoto play the Koto most of the night with her eyes closed; she was playing improvisational jazz better than on any records I have of "Hiroshima"; with her eyes closed, I even have pictures.

You see classical musicians practicing morning noon and night; I'm sure it must be necessary; but if you are going to be improvising, playing new music that you have in your head, what are you going to practice? When improvising, each note you play, depends on the note someone else played before you; that's why good jazz musicians sound so good, because if you play a wrong note, someone else can play a note that will make it sound good, and it all comes out sounding beautiful.

Although you keep harping on the "fact" that my friend did not practice when he was performing at least three nights a week; the elephant here is "improvisation"; that's the ability to create "spontaneously"; either you got or you don't, but no amount of practice will enable you to do this.




Enjoy the music.

Here it is, all the way live HIROSHIMA! I am 100% into this including the Tibetan aspect at the beginning.


                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxImZTT1AEY


I wanted you to see the beautiful June Kuramoto on Koto. I'm sure you can find a better picture if you like what you hear and the audio is not the best; that gal can git down on that Koto when she wants to. I saw them in the 80's at a free concert in the Botanical Gardens, and they played like I've never heard them on any records; they were feeling it, and there was a large responsive audience; that can put high energy into any group.



      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jme2Z0HIzQU

                 

  (she was more beautiful in 1980, it don't last forever)



                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wU3oPGanY3I


There is nothing on you tube that will provide an example of that evening, they were feeling good and just jamming.






Enjoy the music.

Frogman, there is no universal reality; each individual should cling to his or her reality for all it's worth, because ultimately, that is the only reality.

Rok, that was in Tibetan throat singing, hang on until around 3.00


                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GslzWvQRiJg

Let's go around the world, this is fun. Rok, when we saw that dancing in Cuba, I told you and Frogman it was structured; those drumbeats are connected to movements in dance. The dancing that accompanies this music is as structured as any European dance; they have certain movements on the beat, they have to practice. I saw dancers in the Kathryn Dunham school of dance where they are taught dances she learned in Africa.

Descendants of slaves all over the Caribbean, and in Brazil still dance to these drums.


                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_e8bUyC55cc



Enjoy the music.