Jazz for aficionados

I was listening to Sonny Clark and Grant Green playing "Airgin", this is one of Grants favorite tunes; he played that for himself. I say that because before he went to Blue Note, I saw him at a club he went to informally, and played his guitar when he felt like it. There was no admission and me and my jazz buddies really dug Grant, naturally we were there.

His guitar certainly sounds nice with him and Sonny Clark; I was trying to see if I could remember when he played it back then, and the difference I'm hearing now. It's much more complex on this recording; the difference in time from then until now is not that great, now is 1961 and then was 1958; that's only 3 years but what a difference playing for yourself, and playing with guys of Sonny Clark's caliber would make.

The comments made by the peanut gallery rolled off my back like water off a duck. I'm listening to the real deal, "Grant Green", and he was idolized by us, just as much as Miles Davis. We never talked to Miles because he was in New York. They might as well say Miles is from New York, I only saw him at a show in Chicago. When he came to St. Louis on a visit, he stayed out at his fathers farm, he never came out to socialize and have a drink.

Naturally I feel closer to someone's music that I actually talked to, and heard up close and personal. Now don't misunderstand, I'm still a jazz "aficionado" and judging this music at the same time I'm listening to it. I don't say it's boss simply because I heard Grant live; but because it is. Although I talked to Grant, I can't say that I knew him, because that would mean we were friends, and seeing someone and talking to them is a long way from being friends; consequently, I'm giving this music my 'aficionado' judgment.

Right now I'm listening to "you tube", but this music will soon be in my collection. The fact that it's not in my collection is what hurts; it should have been in my collection from the time he made it. What I'm listening to at the moment has Sonny Clark piano; Sam Jones, bass; Art Blakey or Louis Hayes, drums, and of course Grant Green guitar.


                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFzKG6bIwJQ&list=PLC629098E62874E5F&index=7



Now I can only get whatever they offer, when at that time I could have gotten an individual record, and not missed anything; but this is better than nothing.


Enjoy the music.

From the time that I started posting on this thread I have expressed the opinion that there is a danger to the music lover in losing sight of a certain degree of objectivity in evaluating not only the music, but also issues related to the music. Music lovers tend to over-romanticize the music, the musicians and the process of making music. "Process" is the operative word. There is a lot about this process that is very mundane and, if you will, technical. We want our precious music to be solely the product of inspiration and emotion. There’s more to the process than that. This tendency to over-romanticize and to be resistant to understanding the.....here it is.....the much ridiculed (by some) nuts and bolts of the process not only ironically clouds our ultimate potential to fully understand and enjoy the depth of the beauty of the music, it can also cause us to make all sorts of unfounded assumptions about the process and to see boogy-men where there are none. This absurd and long running Grant Green and his unreleased recordings saga is a perfect example.

So much has been made and speculated here about the reasons why some of his recordings were not released in a supposedly timely fashion. The OP has a very personal and romantic take on the situation and appears to be convinced that Green was a victim of greedy record label executives and has even insinuated that these executives deliberately fed this musician’s drug habit in an effort to exploit him. That the OP loves Green’s music is a beautiful thing. That the rose-colored glasses that he looks at everything Green through keep him from having a more realistic take on which of Green’s recordings have merit and which don’t is not. However, as concerns the issue of the release of recordings, he is so hell bent on believing that Green was a victim that he overlooks the most obvious. Personally, this is so obvious that it didn’t even occur to me to look at this aspect of the issue assuming that a true Grant Green-file like the OP would surely have done his homework; but, no, he prefers the romance of the "exploited artist" and fan (O-10). Acman3, don’t feel badly about not checking facts, your premise is correct; it is the important backdrop to the facts and your mention of the facts is what caused me to take a look at them more closely. The OP makes much to do about the facts. Since it is the Christian thing to do lets do the work for him and look at the facts (per Green’s Bluenote discography on Wiki); it may even put an end to this insanity:

Green recorded 6 records in 1961 - 2 were released that year
Green recorded 6 records in 1962 - 0 were released that year. But, wait!. 2 were released that were recorded in 1961.
Green recorded 3 records in 1963 - 2 were released that were recorded in 1962.
Green recorded 4 records in 1964 - 2 were released that were recorded in 1963.
Green recorded 1 record in 1965 - 2 were released that were recorded in 1963.

Do I need to go on? Is it not obvious?

CONTRACT, CONTRACT, CONTRACT, CONTRACT, CONTRACT, no conspiracy, no boogy-men; CONTRACT.

Green’s 2 year contract with Blue Note called for the recording of 6 records and the release of 2 records per year. In 1963 his new contract called for the recording of 3 records and still the release of two. By 1965 Blue Note had 11 (!!!!) unreleased recordings by Green including Green’s first (1960) which wasn’t released till much later. What the hell is BN supposed to do with all that material? There was probably a provision in the contract that stipulated that these would be USA releases. BN determined, for business AND ARTISTIC reasons, that the U.S. market could absorb only two recordings per year and, I am sure, were also concerned with the issue of overexposure for the artist. They chose the recordings that they felt were THE BEST for the U.S. market and later released the others in what is called a secondary market (Japan) where it’s possible the U.S. releases were not available. Then, on top of all that, we get to Acman3’s (and mine) premise; the backdrop to all the previous:

By 1963 Miles had recorded "KOB" and "Seven Steps To Heaven" and Coltrane had recorded "Giant Steps" and that very year 1963 saw the release of his "Impressions"; jazz would not be the same again. As great as a Green was his style of hard bop was being supplanted by something else and probably the reason that by the third year he was required to record half as many records.  What does he do? He tries to go the new soul/funk-jazz way. The rest is history and has been discussed here and beaten to death.

The ridiculous "junky" issue:

The OP obviously has no clue what a tremendous liability it is for a record company to have drug addicts on its catalog. The cost of a junkie not showing up for a recording session is tremendous. The studio and personnel as well as the other musicians still need to get paid; and that is just the tip of the iceberg.

As Rok so succinctly put it: "get over it".

"As Rok put it" is Rok no longer able to post for himself?

Frogman you were 100% wrong about that long running Grant Green saga, and there is no way I'm going to take the time to read your usual diatribe that says nothing, so you get over that.


Enjoy the music.

If you had not made this such a circus, we would have discussed Grant Green's music, posted a few you tubes and moved on, all the while thinking he was a very nice player who made some good records.

Instead, i'm beginning to really dislike the guy.   Now that I know of his drug addiction, I see him in an all together different light.  Drug use means he was not very smart.  Don't have much use for people that squander talent like he did.

Reminds me of a current situation in sports.  A football player from Mississippi was projected to be drafted in the top Five of the NFL draft.  Before the draft, a video of the player smoking dope appears on the internet.  Instead of top five, he gets drafted 13th.  The people in the know, say this means he lost Eight million dollars.  A poor guy who probably never had two dimes to rub together, just threw 8 million out the window.  Laugh or cry.   Your choice

Now he is trying to find out who posted the video.  Not, kicking his own ass for smoking, esp on camera, but looking for someone else to  blame for his stupidity.

Typical of weak minded stupid people.   It's never their fault.  It's the CIA, Blue Note, KGB, the Trilateral Commission even, BUT NEVER them.

So, instead of thinking he was right up there with Wes and Benson, I see him as just another junkie.

He got off his sick bed and went to NYC to record, not to pay his rent, not because he loved music, but because he needed a fix.  Pathetic.

Seems as if Prince might be dead for the same reason.

You should be running low on Kool Aid by now.

Cheers