Hi, No point missed Rob, you're crystal clear. |
Rob and Bill (Brownsfan),
I agree with you regarding the direction of current High End audio sensibilities. Something has gotten off track along the way, the prevalent idea of "neutrality and accuracy" is the goal. The use of these terms suggest a worthy destination and objective. One problem however is the resulting sound quality this has led to. I'm just not buying into it, I want natural or "Real" as Yazaki would describe it. If this puts me in the minority, then so be it.
This will lead to a different group of listeners seeking an alternative path for sonic and musical truthfulness. It's very satisfying to know that there are products available that fulfill this quest.
Charles, |
Rob,
You make numerous good points. The "neutral/accuracy" camp would find our preferences "too colored". The tonal warmth, fullness and harmonic density is to some artifact and not true to the source. I respect their different take on sound, I just reject that model for myself. I am after natural/organic rather than neutral/accurate. Frequent lifelong exposure to live instruments have taught me differently. At this point I no longer argue or try to persuade(not worth the time or effort).Both groups can peacefully coexist and go their own way. I accept the fact that people vary in what they hear and how they listen and leave it at that. Apparently most of us in the tube/SET amplifier faction hear/react in a similar manner. Timbral listener? fits me.
Charles, |
Rob,
I imagine that if anyone could ever build a SS amplifier that rivals a high quality DHT SET Yazaki would be very high on that list. Maybe I'll get to hear his amplifier one day. I remain skeptical only because I've heard this said adnauseum about this or that SS amp (best of both worlds type of remarks). These are two different topologies that won't/don't sound the same (so take your pick), many people are happy with either. SS is definitely the more prevalent and popular choice. I certainly respect Jeff Day's opinion but I retain reservations about "the same sound characteristics" of very dissimilar amp topologies. I guess I'm from Missouri on this one.
Charles, |
Hi Jet,
Johnny Hartman/John Coltrane ? oh yeah! I've owned that classic recording for many years and still listen to it regularly. Just beautiful music and what a good choice for emotional connectivity. It must sound terrific through your system.
Charles, |
"Not one size fits all"
The truth Jet. Your wife I suspect has very good ears. Subjectivity is exactly what it is, no matter how good a product is there will always be different impressions. This is why I reject the idea that something is "the best" in absolute terms. Volleyguy "may" ultimately not agree with the vast majority on this thread. Doesn't invalidate what most have reported, Just means it didn't work for him. He's always been a straight shooter IMO. With more wire burn in time he could love it, you never know.
Charles, |
Hi Rob,
Understood,LOL!
I could relate to Jet's comment regarding his wife's preference between the two cables. That's a real life scenario that I certainly understand. Obviously Jet respects the opinion of his wife or he wouldn't have bothered. |
Rob,
I'd have to agree with Bill's comparison of the two DACs. A friend of mine had the Lampizator Big 5 with Duelund capacitors and it is very good sounding ( forward presentation as Bill described). When we placed the yamamoto DAC (Duelund CASTcapacitors) in his system both of us preferred the Yamamoto). Same result in my system as well. The Yamamoto is more organic, fluid and involving musically speaking. It more effectively pulls you deeper into the music and is very dynamic and vibrant.
Rob the Lampizator is very good sounding, your opinion could be different from ours, variables and that subjectivity factor again. Yamamoto really does fit the "Timbral listening" gestalt very convincingly. Shigeki Yamamoto is cut from similar Japanese designer cloth as Yazaki IMO. I hope you can actually hear both of these DACs for your own ears to decide.
Charles, |
Rob,
Bill's Lampi (Big push pull tubes) vs Yami (DHT SET) sums it up effectively. |
Rob,
Yamamoto has such a small U.S. presence I'm surprised you'll be able to hear it at the show. What will it be paired with? Again I believe that you will like both DACs if they're in a good romm/system. RMAF is a very good show.
Charles, |
Bill (Brownsfan)
Your wife's "who's playing the piano" says all that needs to be said. So innocent, yet so telling.
Charles, |
I appreciate the discussion taking place on this thread. I can relate to virtually all of it. What is the quest?
1.Currrent High End audiophile sonic criteria or
2.An attempt to get to the emotional heart and soul of music.
They are two different objectives that will lead to a different sound and listening experiences. I'm not interested in debating which is "right", I just know which is more satisfying and fulfilling for me. Reading this thread It's apparent there are others who listen in the same fashion also.
I have no criticism of those who hear and prefer their sound in an alternative manner. This is the true expression of personal choice.
I learned my lesson 6 years ago with my exposure to SET amplifiers. All the warnings and caution about them just turned out to be nonsense and misguided IMO.
Any audio component or product that has the ability to get me more emotionally involved is doing something very right. I 'll let other argue/debate the technology and why it should or shouldn't work. At this point I don't care, I just listen and judge based on what I hear.
Charles, |
Hi Jet,
You mention the resolution up your SET amplifier and this is what I mean. I was lead to believe that resolution would be sacrifice if I decided to go this route, although I would be rewarded with a "warm and colorful "sound.
. I find this type of impression condescending in hindsight, yes there is plenty of natural warmth, tonal color and vividness but also true resolution without any hype or exaggeration. Given the current make up of my audio system I now joyfully experience the highest level of nuance, transparency and resolution I have ever had. I'm very happy with this result. All of this satisfaction from a "mere" 8 watt amplifier. |
Rob,
I can literally feel your joy, have much fun today with your brother and friends listening to music. |
Rob,
Unquestionably you've done a genuine service by bringing these cables to the attention of fellow music lovers on this site. You have earned sincere congratulations. I do understand Nonoise's point, no reviewer or builder is a "guru" despite how much we value their opinions and recommendations. The essential beauty of a thread such as this is that a variety of very respected and experienced members freely express their listening impressions. This is an enormous asset for all of us.
Salectric, Volleyguy and Jet's wire break in experience differs from others
here, so what,
that's is expected. Different ears, systems, components and rooms. It's the
highest praise of the W.E. and Belden wires to shine so brilliantly amongst
the very upper tier expensive cable. To put it in proper perspective, this is remarkable! |
Rob,
I don't think that my post came across to you in the way I meant. I was actually complimenting you and this very interesting thread. The input of numerous perspectives/experiences is good stuff. Oh well, this is how Internet text communication goes sometimes.
Take care,
Charles, |
Jet and Bill,
Very interesting the break- in "up and down" pattern of these cables, I wonder what electrical phenomenon explains these observations? And why the same wire behaves differently as IC compared to speaker cable. Always more questions than answers it seems most often.
I am very optimistic for Rob's use of the Arizona green capacitors in his Dynamo , just how much impact will they yield? Fun times for you guys.
Charles, |
Jet,
That theory regarding wire seems intrinsically right. What dielectric material are you using? Some believe that natural materials are better sounding than the synthetics, who knows?
Charles, |
My current cables are unshielded and are the best sounding I've ever had up to this point. Of course how much can I attribute to that one factor? It reasonable to believe other variables are involved. I agree with the idea that there are few If any universal answers when it comes to audio and sound quality. Even with modern science and engineering at its current high level, they "still" can't reliably predict the final sound quality. We are reliant on having to actually listen to any given product. Thus the experimentation occurring with these DIY cables and the various impressions (which are overwhelmingly positive).
Charles, |
Al,
Thanks for your comment/explanation. Unshielded wire and natural fiber materials fit the same category as NFB (no negative feedback). By that I mean the principle(simpler and less complex) of their use and effect seems to yield positive sonic results more often than not. However it's difficult to attribute their apparent benefits in isolation. Yes they appear to improve the sound quality when implemented but other variables are very likely in play. NFB benefit will certainly be dependent on speaker characteristics.
Bill, Jet or Sal, how about making ICs with natural material and another with synthetic dielectric and compare? I know, easy for me to say.
Charles, |
Bill,
Your "rant" is no problem you raised obviously valid points of which I Have no argument with. Of course all materials are composed of fundamental particles (building blocks). The question is how and why do these various materials influence sound quality. What is happening to the signal? What is taking place and at what level, molecular ? Why does paper, cotton or silk differ from teflon or polyethylene? There are builders/designers who have compared and report definite sound characteristics of various types of materials. So Bill my only curiosity is why is it so. Like I've said before, there are always more questions than satisfying answers. No reasonable person would deny that all matter is made of essential atomic building blocks.
Charles, |
In terms of shielded vs unshielded cables, if anything were ever system dependent, this is certainly a good example. Enrivorment (RFI, EMI etc.) and components of choice will determine which is the best solution for sound quality.
Charles, |
Rob,
Have you formed any listening impressions with your modified Dynamo amplifier as of yet? How much of a difference have you heard with the Arizona capacitors?
Charles, |
Hi Jet,
It's good to hear from you. I was under the impression that you had passed on the Kondo cable in favor of the W.E. wires. No doubt that the Kondo is excellent and goes straight to the musical soul. I came oh so close to buying the used Kondo silver cables but bought the use Ocellia Silver Reference instead. I'm sure that I'd be just as happy with either. We can't own everything.
Charles |
Bill,
I have a hard time time keeping up with your various speaker changes, LaHave , Harbeths 40.1 and now the Cresendo (for how long?) 😊. Just kidding with you Bill. Congratulations on your AZ Cresendo, I've heard them on three separate occasions and I feel they are a superb speaker without question. Granted it was with the same amplifier each time (the simply wonderful Triode Corp parallel SET 845). The clock is ticking on how long you'll keep them as I know your restless soul 😊😊.
Charles |
Hi Mikirob,
Which do you find the more musically or emotionally engaging the Harbeth or the Devore?
Charles |
Hi Jet,
Yes I understand how changing one aspect of your system undoubtedly affects other component and audio accessory choices,. It's all intertwined for sure . Have you heard anything from Brett (Isochronism) recently? He hasn't posted here in a long time, hope he's doing well.
Charles |
Bill,
Congratulations on your move from Minnesota to Tennessee and its much milder winters. You wife obviously has very good ears and taste. The Crescendos score high in regard to sound quality and appearance. I suspect that given her feelings towards the Crescendo they are going to be around for a long time. What amplifier are you using with them? Given your penchant for modifications, do you have any in store for these speakers?
Charles |
Jet,
I'll stray off topic for a moment. Have you heard from Brett (Isochronism) recently? He seems to have disappeared.
Thanks,
Charles |
Jet,
Thank you. Good to know he's doing well. I miss his unique wit and humor on this forum.
Charles |
