64 ft of WE 16 gauge arrived last Wednesday. Love the smell of vintage components!! I made an 8ft bi wire set since my Audio Note AN-Es use bi wire configuration. Bare wire, not terminated per Grannyring's direction. They have been burning in for the last 5 days in my 2nd system in the back room. Will put them in today and see what's up - Jet. |
The Beldon interconnects arrived just now. I'll burn them for 24 hours and try them |
Wow the Western Electric 16 gauge speaker cable sounds great! After two days of listening I hear tonality richness and depth at least equal to my Audio Note Lexus but the presentation is quite a bit more clean and direct. This is suprising to me that the cable can be so clean and direct sounding but still have such richness and depth. I was hearing a bit of hi frequency emphasis yesterday but not today. Grannyring, correct, I have enough of this cable to double up or do a single run bi wire. Meaning four 8 ft. runs to each speaker. Nice sounds for sure. It doesn't hurt that the transformer wire is in direct contact with the speaker cable.
I only have 24 hours burn in on the Belden so I won't make any firm
judgments yet, but a quick listen tonight was disappointing. Not even close
to the Kondo interconnects so I'll leave them burning in for a few more days. |
Rob, I am rooting for Belden and will update once they have about 100 hours of burn in time. |
Grannyring, There used to be Leeds Radio here in Brooklyn that sold NOS electrical stuff and the whole place had that old electric smell :)) They relocated to the Bronx.
How are you using the WE16ga in your amp, pre and DAC? Regards-Jet |
I suppose if someone was really crazy they could build a set of interconnects out of WE16gauge, LOL! Might not be such a crazy idea. |
Gotcha thanks Grannyring. After hearing this wire, I'm sure it sounds great. |
Rob, just took a look at Shun Mook's Vintage WE IC. Lots-O-money! LOL! I bought lots of parts at Leeds Radio until they moved to the Bronx. Sounds like your father-in-law was a DIYer. As I remember you are going to build a AN Kit 1 right? It would sound great with AN speakers. No worries about synergy between amp and speakers!
Grannyring, I may as well fool around with some DIY WE IC's. I need to buy another 50 feet of this stuff if its still available in a week or so. Regards Jet |
The WE16 gauge speaker wire sounds great. I understand what the fuss is all about. The Belden interconnects have over 100 hours of burn in so they went into my system this weekend and these IC's also sound really great as well. They sound completely different than the Kondo KSL-LP interconnects I have been trying. Its easy to hear why so many folks are switching to the WE/Belden combo. Over the next few weeks I'll have a better handle on which interconnects I prefer but at this point I am connecting musically with Belden more than Kondo. Regards-Jet |
The WE16g is sounding awesome in my system. Agree with Grannyring that the Belden/WE combo is very musical and has a rich beautiful natural tone for days and days! One thing that bothers me a bit about the Belden IC's is the extra warmth and richness I am hearing in the lower mids and bass. On many of my recordings vinyl and CD it lends an extra glow or heat that is very emotionally engaging. But in my system on many classical orchestral recordings, the lower strings become muddy. This is all very system dependent so take this with a grain of salt if you are not hearing that. At this point the Belden's are no brainer good, but I need to listen for a while longer to see how much of an issue this might be for me and my listening tastes - Regards Jet |
Rob, agreed that it is difficult to record strings and not get a muddled mess unless the engineer knows what they are doing and are recording in a great hall. I'm going to continue to use the Belden and spend plenty of time enjoying the music flowing into my living room. Many recordings sound great so I am not too concerned for now. It is looking likely that I will not buy the Kondo IC. The WE/Belden combo makes flesh and blood music and Kondo is a very lovely sounding cable but it does not make flesh and blood music like the Belden. For now I am pitching my tent in Belden/WE country to see if these will be my long term IC. |
Rob/Grannyring, After Six days the extra warmth has gone away. These Belden ICs are sounding great. Suprising that it took this long since before putting them in they spent a full 100 hours burning in in the back room. |
Mitch2,
The "extra warmth" was the phrase I used to describe the sound of the lower mids before the Belden IC's were fully broken in. I had become concerned since I had well over 100 hours on them and still hearing in my system on many classical orchestral recordings, the lower strings sounding thick and muddy. At about 150 hours the muddiness cleared up and the Belden IC's have continued to sound clear and clean but with a rich and natural tone throughout the frequency range.
Today I put the Kondo KSL-LP interconnects back in and I do appreciate the added transparency depth and detail they provide. A truly beautiful deep musical presentation. As I have mentioned above I dont think I will buy the Kondo IC's, but ultimately I would like to find interconnects that have the musicality and tone of Belden but also a bit more transparency and deeply nuanced sound of Kondo. My system is capable of all of the above musical traits and it makes sense for me to look for an interconnect that I would be 100% satisfied with. |
I forgot to mention that I bought some of the last 7ft pieces of WE16ga that tajacobs has for sale on eBay so I can have some on hand for more speaker cable and to expiriment with making interconnects out of them. Grannyring, have you tried that yet? Regards Jet. |
Grannyring I made interconnects out of WE16ga speaker wire today. A quick listen sounds like we would all expect. Very natural tone. More in about a week :) |
Grannyring, I kept it simple for now. No shield and very small low mass RCA plugs that I have laying around. I cleaned with 99% alcohol both the plugs and the stripped WE wire before using flux to do the solder work. |
I have been listening to Kondo silver interconnects for the better part of the week and tonight I put the Belden interconnects back in and WOW so much music coming from the Belden interconnects.
Soon I'll have something to say about Western electric 16 gauge interconnects! |
Grannyring, I have about 150 hours on the WE16ga interconnects that I built and think they are worth doing. In my system and to my ears they provide as much musicality and emotional connection as the Belden ICs but with a slightly leaner more direct presentation. Belden ICs lend the music a bit more meat on to its bones. Slightly more voluptuous. I think it will be system dependent as to which a listener would prefer. Phduncanson, a Agon member and contributer stopped by tonight and he listened blindly to the Kondo, Belden and Western Electric ICs and on most music he preferred the Western Electric. Sometimes he preferred Kondo, but with this short blind test he concluded Western Electric was the way to go. He didn't know
my preference. We both think Western Electric interconnects have a lot of potential. I am going to leave them in the system and will follow up. - Jet |
Before I went to bed last night I put the kondo cables back in and listened to them this morning and then I put in the Western electric cables. They have most all of the inner resolution and beauty of kondo plus a huge jump in musicality and emotional connection. Musicality just leaps into the room. Listening to Belden this morning and they fall behind the WE ICs. In my system they lack the resolution and clarity of WE ICs. Belden is richly colorful but I would argue the Western electric cables have a broader color palette and have at least as much emotional connectivity if not a bit more at least to my ears. Last night Phduncason mentioned the emotion he felt coming from my system when we were listening to Johnny Hartman/Coltrane cd. It was strange he mentioned it at that moment since I was feeling and hearing the same thing. I had not listened to this recording since building the WE ICs. Serious food for thought...jet |
Thank you Rob this has been my pleasure. My WE interconnects have around 160 hours so over the coming weeks I'll be able to see if these obversations hold true over long term listening. I'm hopeful and think they will. If there is synergy between Belden/WE combo there should be even more synergy WE/WE combo. I'll know in a few weeks. |
Yes sir Charles it doesn't get much better!! Last night we listened to classical and jazz as I wanted as much input from Phduncanson as possible. I listen to quite a lot of rock music too but last night I wanted the comparing to be done with acoustic instruments. |
Maxima95, I used very low mass (very small) no name RCA plugs I had lying around. No twist.
At this point I don't have any recommendations for RCA Plugs. Sound continues to change even today. I am hearing a bit of tinniness in the high end....Slightly brittle - this was not present last night. |
Grannyring, this will be an interesting alternative to the Belden and no harm no foul which ever you prefer since they are so inexpensive. I am listening right now and the energy and musicality is something else. They will need many hours to come around. At 125 they still had a veiled mono toned sound. Finally on Friday night at about 150 hours they opened up and wow did they ever open up. The mids and lower mids are clean clear and fully expressed like no other cable I have heard in my system. Bass is deep rich and clean. We'll see about the highs and if that little bit of brittleness is an issue. Regards-jet |
Mitch 2- I had some well reputed silver speaker cables here for a while and they had beautiful air and upper mids that created a wonderfully detailed presentation but when I put back in my WE16ga speaker cables there was no doubt that I preferred the WE speaker cable. As you say the lower mids and bass are deep rich but clean. They lay a great foundation. I find their total presentation completely satisfying. |
I see that tajacobs has several spools of solid core 22ga WE wire pretty cheap. I am tired of all this experimenting:) jet |
Rhanson739, That is Correct. The seller is tajacobs. I don't know how much of that stranded 16ga is left. The stranded 16ga wire I have was made in the 70's and 80's. Looks like you ran across some from the 90's. If its from tajacobs it should be legit. Get as much as you can.
Mitch2, I bought 50ft of 22ga solid core wire from Tajacobs. |
Rhanson739 - Looks like tajacobs and several 6ft stranded 16ga speaker cables left. If you can live with 6ft long speaker cables Grab it now!
http://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odkw=&_ssn=tajacobs&_sop=12&_osacat=0&_ipg=50&_from=R40&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1312.R2.TR9.TRC1.A0.H0.Xwe.TRS2&_nkw=western+electric+speaker+wire&_sacat=0 |
Rhanson739 - 6ft 8inch. Here's the link:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/68-Western-Electric-speaker-wire-16-ga-PAIR-red-red-black-soaked-in-RARE-/351474579429?hash=item51d58477e5 |
Rhanson739, Some banana female terminals like my Audio Notes can be unscrewed and bare wire can be secured. At least you have the wire! |
Last night my wife had her first listen to the WE 16ga interconnects. I let her blindly hear the WE and then the Kondo and she preferd Kondo. I understand what she was hearing which is the lovely gentle, beautiful deeply textured and balanced presentation of Kondo IC's but I still prefer the WE IC's since I hear almost all of the Kondo's attributes but also to my ears a more musically involving presentation. What I like about WE IC's is the way it handles the Mids all the way through to the Bass. Clear and full and fully expressed.
Its good to have that reality check that we all hear and experience music differently. Not one size fits all - Jet |
my wife has really good ears. perfect pitch, actually. |
Grannyring, the WE 16ga ICs I built are still changing. For a few days the highs were kind of sizzling and brittle and tonight the overall sound has turned dull. So these things are needing over 175 hours and who knows how much more to settle in. Jet |
Grannyring, Great to hear that you are having success with the WE 6ga interconnects and digital cable. I cant wait to hear more about your journey as you put more hours on these WE cables.
With about 200 hours my WE16ga Interconnects are regaining that hi frequency clarity that I heard at 150 hours. I have also been trying the belden again and are liking their sound as well. They both have good synergy with the 16ga WE speaker cable. Not going to draw any firm conclusions about any of this at this point since the WE IC's could still be changing.
Salectric, thanks for sending that article. I understand the conclusion he draws. Last night I tried returning the Kondo IC's to its rightful owner but he said just hold on to them...this is great news since they do offer a reference point for a very balanced sonic perspective. |
It is so annoying that a week ago Phduncanson and I were so taken with the amazing sound of my WE16 interconnects. The mids and lows were so rich clean and involving and then soon after they retreat into a shell and are at this point refusing to come back out. This is a journey indeed. I'm not a happy camper. I have some of that 22gauge solid core WE wire coming from tajacobs...just to complicate matters :) |
to expand a bit on Charles' point and to relate my point of view - My system -300b tubes 6C6 driver tubes, Audio Note Transformers and Audio Note Speakers is all about rich tonal musicality. This amp is a classic Western Electric 91a which is a tonal, musical, gets-the-pacing-right beast. I have also learned over the past few months that it is also pretty highly resolving. I have as well learned that I can have much of that resolution without hurting the emotional musicality we all love. I plan on accepting nothing less. Classical music presents its own set of challenges which to my ears in order to get it right needs a good bit of resolution. My challenge is to find the interconnect that gets all of these elements in the right balance.
I am on the cable journey like all of you but am not yet able to draw any firm conclusions as to which interconnect I can live with. I continue down my road of discovery.
Gannyring, In my experience 30 hours is very short time for the WE16ga interconnects. I hope your journey is smoother than mine. |
I'm with Charles -Yes Rob enjoy. Sounds like a blast!
Grannyring, I ordered four Belden 3502AAU gold/nickel RCA plugs last night. Agreed wish we could do away with all connectors.
Agree with Salectric - will be patient and enjoy the journey! |
Oops I meant four Switchcraft 3502AAU RCA plugs |
The WE16ga interconnects that I built have well over 200 hours and have finally turned the corner and are sounding full of musical color warmth and life just as they did a week ago. The mids are once again fully expressed as is the bass and at the same time sounding transparent clean and clear. As I sit and listen this morning I am struck by this expressive warmth that also has a transparency. Tough trick to pull off as these cables seem to shine a light through the music in a way that is about the music and not about detail. This is the sound that I'm looking for.
Grannyring all I can say is welcome to the journey :) jet |
Grannyring I agree with you about the WE ICs vs Belden. The synergy between WE/WE...yes. This musical light I mentioned seems to open up the sound in a VERY SPECIAL way. In my rig and to my ears Belden is missing this light. Heck most any cables are lacking this special something...whatever it is. |
To recap the break in time of my WE 16g ICs-
At about 150 hours they turned the first corner and became open and very expressive. At about 175 they turned brittle and shortly after shut totally down. At sometime well after 200 hours they have opened back up into the glorious open expressive sound they have today. Are they fully broken in? Who knows.... |
Salectric, I have some 22guage solid core WE cable coming from the ebay seller tajacobs but no I have considered a finer gauge WE stranded wire and am not sure if tajacobs even sells any. About a week ago when buying the 22g solid core I also bought enough 4ft pieces of WE16 gauge to make another IC. Have you drawn any further conclusions about your WE wire? |
Salectric, No I have not seen that post in AA. Glad you bought some extra just-in-case. If you end up not liking it you'll be able to sell it. Given the way you described your rig yesterday I think you will end up liking it.
I have heard good and bad break in several times. Including WIMA caps which I did not like at all in my amp. Several resistors brands as well didnt sound good. These WE16ga IC's...have had several peaks and valleys which were very audible. I found that once the WE16ga speaker wire hit 125 hours they remained pretty consistent, although I confess to never hearing them from the beginning since they were burning in the back room for 125 hours before I stalled them my 300b rig. |
Salectric you mention they became "very warm in the lower mids and bass and rather dark and closed in on top" This is pretty much how I heard the WE16ga Interconnects sound during the 2 or 3 times they shut down. Finally yesterday afternoon I heard them open up a bit and last night I heard a significant change so I put them in the back room burning over night. Early this morning I put them in my 300b rig and they are singing! |
I didn't notice break-in very much with the Western electric speaker cables but it was a much different case with the Western electric interconnects. Same wire different application don't understand it, doesn't really matter, but that's how it was. |
Wow I take my wife down to Coney Island for an afternoon stroll on the beach and some clams and this thread devolves into a bunch of defensive posts that takes up a bunch of guys time to write. I just hope you guys were enjoying some good music while you were posting your defense :) happy Labor Day guys. Jet |
I wanted to end this fine 3 day holiday on an up note by saying how beautiful these Western Electric 16ga interconnects are sounding tonight. After spending over two weeks with them and listening to them evolve they are truly sounding stunningly expressive. I urge those of you that have some wire left to please build some for yourself. Give them plenty of time for break in. I am speechless tonight at the clean grain free musical expression that I am hearing. Such richness and texture. Even with crummy no name RCA plugs. I am lifted by the pure sonic emotion I am hearing. Stunning. Work comes for me early tomorrow morning but it's easier to face when I hear music like this. Jet |
This coming weekend we are having the owner of the Kondo ICs over for some listening and barbecue. He and his wife are coming. We are going to blindly listen to all three interconnects. Belden, WE16ga and Kondo silver and see which they prefer. He knows I am no longer interested in buying the Kondo but he does not know how highly I think of the WE interconnects. This will be fun :) Jet |
Just checked our mailbox and the switchcraft RCA plugs arrived. I'll build a 2nd set of WE16ga interconnects in the next few days and burn them this time for 300 hours...LOL! before trying in my 300b amp. I'll be able to compare them to the WE 16ga interconnects that I built almost three weeks ago with no name RCA plugs.
My instincts tell me to still build these as simply as possible - not using any shielding or twisting. This way I am hearing the cable sounding as natural as possible. I think I read somewhere the less stuff you put around wires, the more open they sound. Don't know if I'm right or wrong, but that's what I'm a gonna do! Jet |
Grannyring keep us posted on the break in. I am courious if it will be similar to mine. At around 250 hours I am still hearing subtle changes day to day. Last night the upper mids sounded a bit harsh and aggressive and tonight these interconnects sound wonderful. In my system it seems there is a fine line with these WE16 interconnects- the highs can straddle the line between being slightly brittle and a wonderfully expressive. Tonight they have excellent balance from top to bottom. One word I would never use to describe these interconnects is "polite". I love being able to say that! After about 200 hours they have been fully expressing their musical selves! - Jet |
Yes it sounds like you are on the journey Grannyring. They went dull and flat several times on me. At 150 they opened up and then shut down again. Let's see if the same hold true for you. the brittleness comes and goes. Hopefully it goes away permanently. |
