MC suggestions


I have long been a Grado fan.  Currently running a Statement Reference v2.  I love it, but.  I auditioned the Ortofon Quintet Black and the Dyna 17d3 and the Benz Glider and while each were excellent in their way, the overall feeling, despite being faster and transparent left me wanting, I was happy enough with my Grado. Id like to take another crack at this now. What I am looking for at this point and I hope you guys can make some suggestions, is a cleaner, and more live sound. This combined with a nice sense of space and width to the soundstage.  Is this asking a lot in my price range which is 2.5k(ish)?  I am of the opinion after spending sometime trying to figure this out, that an el34 based tube amp combined with the Grado cart are just too similar in voicing(warm).  I had hope that running a ss phono stage combined with the low output statement would be just the synergy.  It definitely moved the needle in the right direction and I could live happily if I didn't think I could push it a little farther in the detail direction without losing what I love about the Grado sound.  That is primarily it is not brittle, its natural sounding, nice soundstage all around.  Perhaps if I had solid state amplification it would be a synergistic match made in heaven.  Some carts I have been thinking about are VAS, Miyajima, Dyna(I did really like the 10x5 I listened to at one point).  Not to rule out Lyra but would be worried about the thinness I've read about from some users.  Grado fans seem a little few and far between and I wonder if there are previous fans who have moved on.  Maybe I just need to have a couple carts around and their is no one right cart. I have hesitated pursuing a cart change because my system has been tuned to Grado's sound but if I can get close with another company making MC's that wouldn't call for recalibrating my rig that much would be great.  Thanks for reading and sorry to be so long winded.
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Showing 3 responses by mulveling

@tomic601 
The Ares does indeed ring like a bell; that's not one of my favorite features :(
Sometimes I simply ran it with cover removed; you could also use an HRS damping plate if you remove the loading hatch plate and the (IMO ugly) tube cage. At the end of the day an MC tube phono stage at this sub-$3k price point has some compromises, and the chassis is one of them here. However, I was not able to notice any obvious microphonic effects from the cover in use. My favorite 12BH7 tubes (use them in place of 12AU7) also tend to be microphonic and noisy - and the Ares in general is not quite as quiet as the best, more expensive, tube stages. But also, I'm still quite fond of it - GREAT sound for the money when you get the right cartridge match. Plus Rogue support is absolutely second to none. Maybe they are working on a more upscale phono stage, and that one will be VERY interesting!

Funny, the Herron has a really nice chassis, but it has some kind of bad interaction with the Stax T2 amp I've been pairing it with, so I do get a little bit of hum there. It's been dead quiet in all other configurations I've tried, though - so I certainly can't blame the Herron here. The Ares doesn't have that problem with the T2, though. Still haven't figured it out yet. Weird. 
Here’s a dark horse: Shelter Accord. Not sure if they just discontinued this model, as it was recently removed from their website, but you can probably still find it right about your price range if willing to buy direct from Japan.

A bit warmer and more musical than Ortofons. Much better than the Benz Glider L2 I once owned. Good marriage of technicality and emotion. When paired with the right phono stage (Herron VTPH-2A is superb here), it’s a step above the also-excellent Ortofon Cadenza Bronze (and I like the Bronze because it’s more musical than the higher-level Ortofons I’ve heard). Beautiful midrange, stopping just short of a Koetsu stone body. I really like this Shelter and it’s big brother Harmony. It takes the Koetsu Coralstone Platinum on an FR64S arm to beat them in my system. My Accord is still burning in, and it’s come along very nicely. It doesn’t complete the audiophile checklist - i.e. nude elliptical on aluminum cantilever - but from what I hear that doesn’t matter. The body materials are relatively exotic with titanium and high-quality dry carbon fiber, and of course the "magic" comes from the coil windings. It looks like virtually nobody else has tried this model, so it gets no press, unlike the Harmony.

Or you can get out cheap with the Ortofon Kontrapunkt "h" that was posted for $575 here recently (I don’t know the seller) - and run a 2-cartridge setup for the 2 flavors. The Kontrapunkt series became the Cadenza line, and the "h" should be comparable to the Cadenza Red in performance. I’ve owned Kontrapunkts "a" (Red) and "c" (Bronze) to go with my Cadenza Bronze. I like them all a lot, but the Shelters are better (for more money). I was kinda tempted by this "h" too, but had to remind myself I have way WAY too many high-end cartridges already!
I can also confirm the Cadenza Bronze is also a great match for the Herron VTPH-2A! I think you could be very happy with that pairing. In my 2nd system I’ve been mixing/matching between the Bronze, Accord, Herron, and a Rogue Ares Magnum phono stage. Here are my loose & subjective ratings for the 4 combos, with my reference Koetsu Coralstone + FR64S w/ VAC Renaissance SE phono stage in the main system being the "10" reference (and at a very large multiple of the cost):

1. Shelter Accord + Herron: 9.0
2. Cadenza Bronze + Herron: 8.5
3. Cadenza Bronze + Ares Magnum: 8.25
4. Shelter Accord + Ares Magnum: 7.0

I use a Fidelity Research FR64fx arm on these combos; SOTA Nova V table.
Dunno why - just haven’t gotten that 4th combo to really sing for me yet (tried 20x and 40x gain settings on its internal SUT). Any of the other 3 combos are great, but the top 2 really start edging into special territory. I’m also a bit of a nut for NOS tubes. I use a quad of Telefunken smooth plate 12AX7, and a stock 12AT7 (which I believe is an Ei Yugo smooth plate) in the Herron, with 500 ohm loading plugs. In the Ares I use Mazda silver-plate 12AX7 and 1950’s Sylvania black plate D getter 12BH7.

Another factor to consider is that Ortofon has very good service/support. When your Cadenza wears out you can get it completely rebuilt (they only retain the shell) for roughly half of the list price - good as new again. To be honest I’m not even sure what support Shelter offers, if any - and I’ve had no luck so far getting info towards that end from my dealer.

The Cadenza also has a very easy to work with specs: 5 ohms and nearly 0.5mV output, which makes it an easy match to either active MC inputs (like the Herron) or SUT’s in the 10x - 40x range. The Shelter is also 0.5mV, but its 15 ohm coils make it a poor match for the higher gain 30x/40x SUT’s (like in the Ares). The Shelter does work very well with a Sky 20, though.

Call Keith Herron up and ask him about pricing if you’re interested in going that route, btw. I’m not one who is going to say the Herron is better than anything ever - I do like my VAC better (I also really like the phonos VAC builds into their preamps!) - but it’s a lot of sound for the money, and so is the Ares Magnum (given the right cartridge pairing) for that matter.