Agreed Jim. A hard expensive lesson that took me quite awhile to figure out. The rest of my life will be with spent w/tubes & reasonably efficient, easy to drive speakers. Thinking back to the early 90's I had a system with Klipsch Chorus speakers & a Carver M amp that emulated tube sound that was 375 watts per channel. Talk about concert levels.....at the time I thought it sounded great. I'd like to compare to what I have now just for grins.
Mega amps - low IMP speakers, where is all this headed and why
hello all,
Is the ‘light’ at the end of the tunnel a train?
‘Curiosity killed the cat. Death regularly indicates something physical and well beyond inquiring minds is required to be erased from the mortal plane.
Inquisitiveness may have unexpectedly snuffed out a prominent socialite’s or celebrity’s ‘familiar’ back in the day, and as such, handed us this well worn and slightly baffling caveat.
What about those other eight lives? That must have been one incredibly annoying cat!
On the flip side, curiosity enables audio maniacs to ponder, ruminate, and consider where production tendencies are headed and how manufacture ring trends may impact them going forward.
If you are in the market for speakers and who isn’t? Pretty sure it’s a law somewhere. You must have noticed the enormous numbers of speaker systems on the market being produced in 4 ohm impedance configurations. Sensitivity in most of these models however doesn’t seem inordinately boosted to increase flexibility with just any amp.
Conversely, if you’re looking for a new or replacement, or just one more amp, and who isn’t? This is about to become a law when the next audio congress convenes. You must have noticed amplifiers these days are capable of producing prodigious wattage.
Exactly who is leading the way here? Amp makers producing some of the most powerful amps in the history of home audio,, or speaker makers lowering their latest constructs IMPs across the board begging for the advent of more applied power so they can put their best notes forward?
Form following function. No worries. Really?
The proliferation of Loudspeaker’s plummeting impedances is especially true as the costs of speakers rise. Albeit, the more affordable sorts have been touched too.
So why now is 4 ohms the overwhelming standard, and not 8 ohms or higher?
Article after article says traditional loudspeaker designs seek to produce Driver technology whose aim is to make lightweight, fast moving, low mass diaphragms suggesting less power, not more, will then be required to control them properly.
Indeed, there are loudspeaker designs which by their nature demand ample current supplies. OK. Well, what about the rest of them?
With speaker makers like Devore, Coincident, Tannoy, Klipsch, Daedalus, BW, Silverline, tekton, and a throng of others which carry more than a couple drivers and claim 8 ohm or higher IMP ratings in many of their products, it is puzzling so many of the upper range, (way expensive) speakers from many makers around the world produce these units as lower IMP formulae regularly.
Neither should we overlook those loudspeaker systems which are beginning to build models with active bass components. These afford a wider selection of amps with which to fuel them. As well there are completely active head to toe, speaker systems becoming more popular and more prevalent.
Are these most thoughtful semi and fully active loudspeaker arrays the sign post up ahead that new solutions are materializing to allow avoidance of the current rank and file tougher to push speakers? In this novel tangent towards what might be the last viable option for the ‘sonic crusader’, is this simply a detour to the Rod Serling Museum wherein a whole new bag of worms will be exposed once inside?
These partially and fully active speaker systems may wel be the last feasible stalwarts to compile a ‘new age’ stereo. It is a relief to see these appear as more than futuristic possible proposals and presently abailable. The sole pitfall for them is not many speaker makers are including this species as obtainable purchases. In fact, the herd is quite thin.
With the sound being the goal at the end of the day, why are we now obliged to choose between glorious and pleasant with the implied prerequisite higher wattage and consequently more expensive amps is the optimum solution for driving these difficult loads?
, “It’s all been done” … Barenaked Ladies
Amplifier designers have been quoted repeatedly amplifier technology has seen its maximum improvements. There is simply not much more one can do with amps that has not already been done, save for increasing outputs. It comes down to what goes into the amp and how it is implemented as the topology in many respects is at its zenith.
Even foremost tube amp makers got into the fray as best they could pushing out 200, 400, and remarkably greater power amps, doubling and tripling their former amp’s outputs to be viable choices for hard to drive speakers, not to mention merely being competitive with the Ever increasing outputs of SS amps.
Looking for a new set of mono blocks and a space heater ‘all in one’ solution? Enjoy listening while stark naked in sub zero weather? Its OK. no judgements here. Well, then just Put a pair of 250, or 400w –tube big boys’ in your room and push the ‘fun’ buttons! Problem solved.
Toasty tunes!
A couple hundred pounds more or les, of Class A SS amps does the same thing. Eventually.
It all seems so unnecessary.
Furthermore, routinely notable amplifier makers report the less power used the better the quality of the sound capable of being generated.
Amplifier outputs, electrical attributes, types, designs, aplomb, and honesty are a crucial portion of the mysterious formula for mating them to speakers to achieve the most advantageous or desired presentations. Though it appears wattage overkill is the new gear in the acceleration of ultra audio.
The amplifiers that can achieve these remarkable outputs and demonstrate delicious sound in lock step continue to distance themselves with their stratospheric price tags.
If the chase was not at all about acquiring as much fascination and intrigue as the goal, with costs being a real world factor, questions like this would not arise. (egg., aforementioned abruptly deceased feline. What? Too soon?)
Could it be true the wealth of affordable Class a SS amps are about to become extinct, seldom sought, or eventually merely shadowy memories due to the lowering IMP of current and forthcoming speakers?
Will amp makers ever find the equation that enables lots o’watt amps to deliver the sound quality of lower powered, quite intriguing amps akin to SETs, PP Tris OTL, Pass’ First Watt, and the like?
Will speaker makers ever escalating advances in tech finally yield transducers possessing easier, rather than more difficult speaker IMPs as the ‘rule, and thereby reverse this low IMP ‘cookie cutter’ tendency ?
How much more difficult is it about to become for the median of audio devotees to establish exemplary performing systems without the need for a second mortgage, or logging onto Craig’s List to sell a kidney?
There seems no ‘one size fits all’ answer but there are plenty of questions surrounding the direction home audio speaker and amplifier manufacturers are now pursuing and what lays just beyond the horizon for audio disciples. Several, however, are presented here for your consideration.
So the thread's title alone begs this question…
“At the end of the day, with respect to the lowering of IMPs in speakers and increasing outputs of amplifiers, is the ‘light’ at the end of the tunnel a train?”
Or, should we simply ‘pay no attention to the ‘disturbance’ behind the curtains”.
thank you all for your thoughtful input.
Is the ‘light’ at the end of the tunnel a train?
‘Curiosity killed the cat. Death regularly indicates something physical and well beyond inquiring minds is required to be erased from the mortal plane.
Inquisitiveness may have unexpectedly snuffed out a prominent socialite’s or celebrity’s ‘familiar’ back in the day, and as such, handed us this well worn and slightly baffling caveat.
What about those other eight lives? That must have been one incredibly annoying cat!
On the flip side, curiosity enables audio maniacs to ponder, ruminate, and consider where production tendencies are headed and how manufacture ring trends may impact them going forward.
If you are in the market for speakers and who isn’t? Pretty sure it’s a law somewhere. You must have noticed the enormous numbers of speaker systems on the market being produced in 4 ohm impedance configurations. Sensitivity in most of these models however doesn’t seem inordinately boosted to increase flexibility with just any amp.
Conversely, if you’re looking for a new or replacement, or just one more amp, and who isn’t? This is about to become a law when the next audio congress convenes. You must have noticed amplifiers these days are capable of producing prodigious wattage.
Exactly who is leading the way here? Amp makers producing some of the most powerful amps in the history of home audio,, or speaker makers lowering their latest constructs IMPs across the board begging for the advent of more applied power so they can put their best notes forward?
Form following function. No worries. Really?
The proliferation of Loudspeaker’s plummeting impedances is especially true as the costs of speakers rise. Albeit, the more affordable sorts have been touched too.
So why now is 4 ohms the overwhelming standard, and not 8 ohms or higher?
Article after article says traditional loudspeaker designs seek to produce Driver technology whose aim is to make lightweight, fast moving, low mass diaphragms suggesting less power, not more, will then be required to control them properly.
Indeed, there are loudspeaker designs which by their nature demand ample current supplies. OK. Well, what about the rest of them?
With speaker makers like Devore, Coincident, Tannoy, Klipsch, Daedalus, BW, Silverline, tekton, and a throng of others which carry more than a couple drivers and claim 8 ohm or higher IMP ratings in many of their products, it is puzzling so many of the upper range, (way expensive) speakers from many makers around the world produce these units as lower IMP formulae regularly.
Neither should we overlook those loudspeaker systems which are beginning to build models with active bass components. These afford a wider selection of amps with which to fuel them. As well there are completely active head to toe, speaker systems becoming more popular and more prevalent.
Are these most thoughtful semi and fully active loudspeaker arrays the sign post up ahead that new solutions are materializing to allow avoidance of the current rank and file tougher to push speakers? In this novel tangent towards what might be the last viable option for the ‘sonic crusader’, is this simply a detour to the Rod Serling Museum wherein a whole new bag of worms will be exposed once inside?
These partially and fully active speaker systems may wel be the last feasible stalwarts to compile a ‘new age’ stereo. It is a relief to see these appear as more than futuristic possible proposals and presently abailable. The sole pitfall for them is not many speaker makers are including this species as obtainable purchases. In fact, the herd is quite thin.
With the sound being the goal at the end of the day, why are we now obliged to choose between glorious and pleasant with the implied prerequisite higher wattage and consequently more expensive amps is the optimum solution for driving these difficult loads?
, “It’s all been done” … Barenaked Ladies
Amplifier designers have been quoted repeatedly amplifier technology has seen its maximum improvements. There is simply not much more one can do with amps that has not already been done, save for increasing outputs. It comes down to what goes into the amp and how it is implemented as the topology in many respects is at its zenith.
Even foremost tube amp makers got into the fray as best they could pushing out 200, 400, and remarkably greater power amps, doubling and tripling their former amp’s outputs to be viable choices for hard to drive speakers, not to mention merely being competitive with the Ever increasing outputs of SS amps.
Looking for a new set of mono blocks and a space heater ‘all in one’ solution? Enjoy listening while stark naked in sub zero weather? Its OK. no judgements here. Well, then just Put a pair of 250, or 400w –tube big boys’ in your room and push the ‘fun’ buttons! Problem solved.
Toasty tunes!
A couple hundred pounds more or les, of Class A SS amps does the same thing. Eventually.
It all seems so unnecessary.
Furthermore, routinely notable amplifier makers report the less power used the better the quality of the sound capable of being generated.
Amplifier outputs, electrical attributes, types, designs, aplomb, and honesty are a crucial portion of the mysterious formula for mating them to speakers to achieve the most advantageous or desired presentations. Though it appears wattage overkill is the new gear in the acceleration of ultra audio.
The amplifiers that can achieve these remarkable outputs and demonstrate delicious sound in lock step continue to distance themselves with their stratospheric price tags.
If the chase was not at all about acquiring as much fascination and intrigue as the goal, with costs being a real world factor, questions like this would not arise. (egg., aforementioned abruptly deceased feline. What? Too soon?)
Could it be true the wealth of affordable Class a SS amps are about to become extinct, seldom sought, or eventually merely shadowy memories due to the lowering IMP of current and forthcoming speakers?
Will amp makers ever find the equation that enables lots o’watt amps to deliver the sound quality of lower powered, quite intriguing amps akin to SETs, PP Tris OTL, Pass’ First Watt, and the like?
Will speaker makers ever escalating advances in tech finally yield transducers possessing easier, rather than more difficult speaker IMPs as the ‘rule, and thereby reverse this low IMP ‘cookie cutter’ tendency ?
How much more difficult is it about to become for the median of audio devotees to establish exemplary performing systems without the need for a second mortgage, or logging onto Craig’s List to sell a kidney?
There seems no ‘one size fits all’ answer but there are plenty of questions surrounding the direction home audio speaker and amplifier manufacturers are now pursuing and what lays just beyond the horizon for audio disciples. Several, however, are presented here for your consideration.
So the thread's title alone begs this question…
“At the end of the day, with respect to the lowering of IMPs in speakers and increasing outputs of amplifiers, is the ‘light’ at the end of the tunnel a train?”
Or, should we simply ‘pay no attention to the ‘disturbance’ behind the curtains”.
thank you all for your thoughtful input.