My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

If you get a Dartzeel NHB-18NS that REF 6 will be on Audiogon the next day. GUARANTEED...wont be a fair fight!!

Thanks for the recommendation of the ODEON.  I contacted Plinius and they hooked me up with their tech here in the USA who had a spare. He's gonna do the "ultimate" upgrade on it for me so I will be all set for my 4.0 and 5.1 1970's stuff. Much appreciated!

KW6,

Reference 6 was definitely less dynamic, less detailed, less transparent, less fully extended or resolving in the upper octaves than the darTZeel—which costs more than twice as much

JAFANT,

Call up Vince Galbo at 716-688-3527  He is in NY and he is the guy who repairs all Plinius amps here in the USA. He IS the Plinius guy to talk to. He can probably get you the best deal.  He also deals with MSB products as well. He's a pleasure to work with and talk to.

If you have read the OP's posts he has clearly stated his view of AYRE products. He has also mentioned several times about re-sale value of the components he tries.  He will get his butt kicked if he buys MXR, VXR, KXR Twenties brand new and then doesnt like them. Plus you have to wait MONTHS for Ayre to build them...they arent ready made like Arc/Luxman etc

Not sure what your not understanding given these variables. You can easily sell Used Luxman/Arc pieces and not lose 2K per piece. Try doing that with AYRE.   I suggest you go to HIFISHARK.COM to see how much money you will lose on AYRE products should you try to resell them.  A KXR-Twenty just sold on Audiogon for 14K....how much of a Bath was that??

PS AUDIO doesnt make the best of anything. Get a Niagara or Denali which is what most of the guys with High end/sophisticated systems use. Go to the AUDIOSHARK Forums and do some research. Plenty of high end dealers including the owner of the site that will steer you in the right direction....and he's in Florida. No Snake Oil.  

PS AUDIO (Paul) has said repeatedly that his Transport and Dac is the best CD reproduction he has ever heard.  Obviously he never leaves his own room at the Audio Show Conventions he attends to hear other Disc Spinners like Esoteric/T+A/Burmeister/Luxman/Meridian/Audio Note/EMM Labs etc    You know who PS Audio equipment is made for?  The same guys that keep asking you to review low end amps/pre-amps. WHY would you ever do that given your "taste"?  Common sense is not in abundance around here.

Hey Techno_Dude

Thanks for proving my point about common sense. Earlier you told the OP to check out AYRE gear of which I have 2 pieces myself (VXR and KXR Twenties).  I told you he SHOULDNT get AYRE gear cause the resale value is horrid. Perfect example....a 4 Month Old Pair of MXR Mono blocks just sold here on Audiogon yesterday for $15,500....List Price is more than DOUBLE that. Even if the OP got a great deal...lets say 1/3 off list price...he would still lose $7000!!!  Makes no sense.  If I was a DEALER like you imply why would I tell him NOT to buy the products I have??? DUH!!!

I wish he would try T+A, D'agostino 400 or 250, Gryphon Diablo, ARC Tube Amps, Audio Note etc but he would probably run into the same problem to a degree. He has already told YOU (and the other viewers) that he cant risk huge losses on the gear he auditions. The Bel Canto he's trying must be loaners cause he would definitely lose 5 Figures trying to ditch a Black System...maybe even 15K+.

If you want reviews of cheaper products why dont you A) Start your own thread with products that YOU purchase  B) Go to websites where those types of products are more prominently featured....like the STEVE HOFFMAN FORUM where there is seldom any talk about Higher End Products...Its Minor League Heaven.  You will get your fill of PS Audio, Bryston, Primaluna, Line Magnetic, Parasound etc   Tons of Reviews and comparisons if you use the SEARCH option.

The Op is not getting paid for what he is doing. Im sure he isn't making a freakin dime when he dumps what he has. Probably a godsend if he just breaks even. He's sharing his comparisons of stuff HE WANTS to own. He would get NOTHING except potential monetary losses for trying stuff out that other people suggest that he has no interest in having in his personal collection. I cant think of ANYBODY that would do that.  To his credit he seems to ignore those suggestions (which I applaud)....his tongue is probably bleeding thou from biting on it so much.

Keep up the good work OP.....Just do it for yourself as always. Stay out of the "Kiddie Pool"!! :)

MikePaul,

You know i did the same thing this morning with a VPI Turntable because somebody said the "Close and Play" I had when I was 5 Years old in 1968 blows away anything made today. Thanks to the internet I will never need to audition anything for myself....YIPPEE!!

Grey9hound,

You think Gryphon is expensive? Compared to what? The OP is playing with Rowland 925's at the moment and the Retail on those is 60K....you can buy almost 4 Gryphon Diablo 300's for that amount!!!  You might want to check out the Steve Hoffman Forum to get opinions on gear for people on a limited budget. Hardly anybody on that page has reference gear.    

OP...Surprised you started using the LUX Pre instead of the REF 10. Im sure you will swap at some point. Dont forget to try out the DAG 400's and compare to the 925's.  At least those 2 would be a fair fight in the 60K Range.  Cant bash Hegel, Luxman etc who are in the $10K-15K range going up against a 60K monster. The Rowland should blow them away at that price point. 

3 Weeks ago I remember a slightly used Diablo 300 coming up for sale in NY here on Audiogon...by a Speaker maker no less.  Asking price was 11,500. No idea how much it actually sold for. Will bet he didn't pay 16K for it and take a $5000 loss.

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis8ih6h-gryphon-diablo-300-solid-state?refsource=hifishark

Hey Chazzy,

The Diablo looks like a BLACK Xerox Copier/Fax Machine. If that thing was Off-White or Tan in color you would think it belongs on a secretary’s desk. Im sure it sounds wonderful thou. If they ever redesign its looks to something acceptable I will be sure to pick one up. The fact that MANY people think the looks is a problem (go on other Forums) suggests the company should rethink its design. When people discuss MAC, Luxman, D’agostino or any other high end brands (based on their appearance) you rarely hear that as a reason why somebody WONT buy their product. I dont care if 50-60% of the Audiophile community LOVES the Gryphon looks....You cant afford to have 40-50% not want it simply because its not something they want to be prominently displayed in their room/rack. They are losing plenty of potential sales, including mine, just based on that alone which is NOT good in this small niche audiophile market.

Anybody see the latest Diablo 300 on Audiogon? Listed as MINT with a 11,500 asking price...2nd one in a row listed at that price. The dealer (Percotta in Connecticut) took 9K for it.  

Gryphon Audio Diablo 300 integrated amplifier Mint cust...$9,000.00 Listing Sold

Don't get P.T.Barnum "suckered" into paying Full Retail unless you enjoy losing 5-7K in the blink of an eye.

OP....Here is your quote from 5/19....Just sayin. 

 Dealers DO NOT Give discounts on new gryphon product so don't even try...I've tried and tried lol and you all know I TRY and I failed. If you want gryphon, prepare to pay FULL PRICE unless you buy from Europe. That is like the Louie Vuitton brand. When did you ever see any on sale in their store? Never...just doesn't happen

McIntosh is MID-FI. People buy it for the name without even bothering to listen to other brands...OR they simply cant afford to go up the food chain.  Mcintosh is the Harley Davidson of Stereo Equipment.  Im surrounded by MC dealers and they pretty much confirm everything that the OP has stated. Great Re-sale value but WAAAAY behind the top dogs in quality/performance. When I first ventured into this world I went to a VERY Well known dealership in Delaware.  Of course at the time I thought MC was the best and the salesman did his best to steer me away from MC and get some Audio Research.  Basically they said "We have people like you come in here ALL the time with the predisposition that MC is the best...and that is far from the truth".  So I didnt listen cause I thought it was just a sales pitch and I went home with my MC Amp + Pre-Amp which where the Newest and "greatest" at the time.  What I eventually learned when I opened up my ears and my wallet was that I would never buy another piece of MC again after experience with Audio Research, D'agostino, Ayre etc.   Mcintosh is in the minor league for sure.

"The experts just told us that Mac is mid-fi"

Sure is and it doesn't take an expert to hear it. The C52 is what I brought home that day and it cant touch the Ayre KXR-Twenty, REF 6 or 10, Shindo Pre's Ive had.  Im totally confident that Luxman, D'agostino, T+A, Pass Labs and many others would lay waste to it. The C52 IS good....for a Mcintosh pre which have always been held in low regard...except by MC Fan Boys of course. 2200+ Posts?? A person only learns from listening...not from talking (Typing). Maybe you should spend more time auditioning other brands gear and less time behind the keyboard. Just a thought.

#Redlenses

Do you see photos anywhere in the Audiogon Forum??

MP,

Mac 2301 is over a decade old in technology. I havent been around long enough to know AR equipment from that long ago. For me MAC and AR are in entirely different ballparks and are not comparable. SOTA vs Mid-Fi...and priced accordingly

If your gonna try more tubes you have to absolutely try to get a Demo pair of REF 160M. Hit Mike up and ask to borrow his.

 Might take awhile for them to hit the market cause everybody loves them so much...OR you can move to the PA/NJ Area and you can borrow my Dag 400's, 160M, Ayre KXR-20 Preamp, Audio Note Jinro and a bunch of speakers you've never tried (Audio Note/Joseph Audio Pearl's/O96's/Salk Soundscape 8) ...The move might be cheaper!! :)

You dont want him to try Dag 400’s with the Ref 10. His search might be over...then this will become a SPEAKER page instead. There are several people on the AudioShark Forum that have the Dag 400/Ref 10 setup AND have previously had (or still have) Luxman 900’s as well. They all prefer the Dag 400 with Ref 10 OR the Dag Pre-Amp. Go to the D’AGOSTINO page and read for yourself...don’t take my word for it.

Unfortunately most DAG comments made recently are from somebody that has never heard them...even thou according to him they were available for him to audition but he passed just because of the price tag. Ever notice how people that cant afford certain gear just talk about them out of spite/jealousy/insecurity etc? Sadly misinformation happens all the time and gives some people the wrong impression/ideas about how something actually sounds. That guys Opinion becomes THEIR Opinion and then in later posts (Potentially on other boards) those impressionable people with ZERO Experience with the product state that guys observations as fact. That’s why I appreciate this thread. Im hearing somebodys opinion based on reality...not fantasy/speculation.

Personally even if I couldn’t afford something but was given the opportunity to hear it I certainly would want to....that way I know what to potentially shoot for down the road. Learn what my system could be like. But hey...that’s just me

  Its not MY thread. I dont listen to Violins/Harps so what I hear listening to Classic/Hard Rock wouldnt apply to you (or possibly most) anyway. I traded in my Ayre VXR Twenty towards the 160M's.   

Opinion on GS150 not based on sound quality....based on BUILD Quality and how many had defects and were returned for repair. This is why they have been purged as fast as possible from dealer inventories at maximum discounts.