2. amps-preamps
  3. 126624-10101

My Long List of Amplifiers and My Personal Review of Each!

So I have been in a long journey looking to find the best amplifiers for my martin logan montis. As you know, the match between an amplifier and speakers has to be a good "marriage" and needs to be blend exquisitely. Right now, I think I might have found the best sounding amplifier for martin logan. I have gone through approximately 34-36 amplifiers in the past 12 months. Some of these are:

Bryston ST, SST, SST2 series
NAD M25
PARASOUND HALO
PARASOUND CLASSIC
KRELL TAS
KRELL KAV 500
KRELL CHORUS
ROTEL RMB 1095
CLASSE CT 5300
CLASSE CA 2200
CLASSE CA 5200
MCINTOSH MC 205
CARY AUDIO CINEMA 7
OUTLAW AUDIO 755
LEXICON RX7
PASS LABS XA 30.8
BUTLER AUDIO 5150
ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005

With all that said, the amplifiers I mentioned above are the ones that in my opinion are worth mentioning. To make a long story short, there is NO 5 CHANNEL POWER AMP that sounds as good as a 3ch and 2ch amplifier combination. i have done both experiments and the truth is that YOU DO lose details and more channel separation,etc when you select a 5 channel power amplifier of any manufacturer.
My recollection of what each amp sounded like is as follows:

ATI SIGNATURE SERIES 6005 (great power and amazing soundstage. Very low noise floor, BUT this amplifiers NEEDS TO BE cranked up in order to fully enjoy it. If you like listening at low volume levels or somewhat moderate, you are wasting your time here. This amp won’t sound any different than many other brands out there at this volume. The bass is great, good highs although they are a bit bright for my taste)

NAD M25 (very smooth, powerful, but somewhat thin sounding as far as bass goes)
Bryston sst2(detailed, good soundstage, good power, but can be a little forward with certain speakers which could make them ear fatiguing at loud volumes)

Krell (fast sounding, nice bass attack, nice highs, but some detail does get lost with certain speakers)

rotel (good amp for the money, but too bright in my opinion)

cary audio (good sound overall, very musical, but it didn’t have enough oomph)

parasound halo (good detail, great bass, but it still holds back some background detail that i can hear in others)

lexicon (very laid back and smooth. huge power, but if you like more detail or crisper highs, this amp will disappoint you)

McIntosh mc205 (probably the worst multichannel amp given its price point. it was too thin sounding, had detail but lacked bass.

butler audio (good amplifier. very warm and smooth sweet sounding. i think for the money, this is a better amp than the parasound a51)

pass labs (very VERY musical with excellent bass control. You can listen to this for hours and hours without getting ear fatigue. however, it DOES NOT do well in home theater applications if all you have is a 2 channel set up for movies. The midrange gets somewhat "muddy" or very weak sounding that you find yourself trying to turn it up.

classe audio (best amplifier for multi channel applications. i simply COULDNT FIND a better multi channel amplifier PERIOD. IT has amazing smoothness, amazing power and good bass control although i would say krell has much better bass control)

Update: The reviews above were done in January 2015. Below is my newest update as of October 2016:



PS AUDIO BHK 300 MONOBLOCKS: Amazing amps. Tons of detail and really amazing midrange. the bass is amazing too, but the one thing i will say is that those of you with speakers efficiency of 87db and below you will not have all the "loudness" that you may want from time to time. These amps go into protection mode when using a speaker such as the Salon, but only at very loud levels. Maybe 97db and above. If you don’t listen to extreme crazy levels, these amps will please you in every way.
Plinius Odeon 7 channel amp: This is THE BEST multichannel amp i have ever owned. Far , but FAR SUPERIOR to any other multichannel amp i have owned. In my opinion it destroyed all of the multichannel amps i mentioned above and below. The Odeon is an amp that is in a different tier group and it is in a league of its own. Amazing bass, treble and it made my center channel sound more articulate than ever before. The voices where never scrambled with the action scenes. It just separated everything very nicely.
Theta Dreadnaught D: Good detailed amp. Looks very elegant, has a pleasant sound, but i found it a tad too bright for my taste. I thought it was also somewhat "thin" sounding lacking body to the music. could be that it is because it is class d?
Krell Duo 300: Good amp. Nice and detailed with enough power to handle most speakers out there. I found that it does have a very nice "3d" sound through my electrostatics. Nothing to fault here on this amp.
Mark Levinson 532H: Great 2 channel amp. Lots of detail, amazing midrange which is what Mark Levinson is known for. It sounds very holographic and will please those of you looking for more detail and a better midrange. As far as bass, it is there, but it is not going to give you the slam of a pass labs 350.5 or JC1s for example. It is great for those that appreciate classical music, instrumental, etc, but not those of you who love tons of deep bass. It is articulate sounding too
Krell 7200: Plenty of detail and enough power for most people. i found that my rear speakers contained more information after installed this amp. One thing that i hated is that you must use xlr cables with this amp or else you lose most of its sound performance when using RCA’s.
Krell 402e: Great amp. Very powerful and will handle any speaker you wish. Power is incredible and with great detail. That said, i didn’t get all the bass that most reviewers mentioned. I thought it was "ok" in regards to bass. It was there, but it didn’t slam me to my listening chair.
Bryston 4B3: Good amp with a complete sound. I think this amp is more laid back than the SST2 version. I think those of you who found the SST2 version of this amp a little too forward with your speakers will definitely benefit from this amp’s warmth. Bryston has gone towards the "warm" side in my opinion with their new SST3 series. As always, they are built like tanks. I wouldn’t call this amp tube-like, but rather closer to what the classe audio delta 2 series sound like which is on the warm side of things.
Parasound JC1s: Good powerful amps. Amazing low end punch (far superior bass than the 402e). This amp is the amp that i consider complete from top to bottom in regards to sound. Nothing is lacking other than perhaps a nicer chassis. Parasound needs to rework their external appearance when they introduce new amps. This amp would sell much more if it had a revised external appearance because the sound is a great bang for the money. It made my 800 Nautilus scream and slam. Again, amazing low end punch.
Simaudio W7: Good detailed amp. This amp reminds me a lot of the Mark Levinson 532h. Great detail and very articulate. I think this amp will go well with bookshelves that are ported in order to compensate for what it lacks when it comes to the bass. That doesn’t mean it has no bass, but when it is no Parasound JC1 either.
Pass labs 350.5: Wow, where do i begin? maybe my first time around with the xa30.8 wasn’t as special as it was with this monster 350.5. It is just SPECTACULAR sounding with my electrostatics. The bass was THE BEST BASS i have ever heard from ANY amp period. The only amp that comes close would be the jC1s. It made me check my settings to make sure the bass was not boosted and kept making my jaw drop each time i heard it. It totally destroyed the krell 402e in every regard. The krell sounded too "flat" when compared to this amp. This amp had amazing mirange with great detail up top. In my opinion, this amp is the best bang for the money. i loved this amp so much that i ended up buying the amp that follows below.
Pass labs 250.8: What can i say here. This is THE BEST STEREO AMP i have ever heard. This amp destroys all the amps i have listed above today to include the pass labs 350.5. It is a refined 350.5 amp. It has more 3d sound which is something the 350.5 lacked. It has a level of detail that i really have never experienced before and the bass was amazing as well. I really thought it was the most complete power amplifier i have ever heard HANDS DOWN. To me, this is a benchmark of an amplifier. This is the amp that others should be judged by. NOTHING is lacking and right now it is the #1 amplifier that i have ever owned.
My current amps are Mcintosh MC601s: i decided to give these 601s a try and they don’t disappoint. They have great detail, HUGE soundstage, MASSIVE power and great midrange/highs. The bass is great, but it is no pass labs 250.8 or 350.5. As far as looks, these are the best looking amps i have ever owned. No contest there. i gotta be honest with you all, i never bought mcintosh monos before because i wasn’t really "wowed" by the mc452, but it could have been also because at that time i was using a processor as a preamp which i no longer do. Today, i own the Mcintosh C1100 2 chassis tube preamp which sounds unbelievable. All the amps i just described above have been amps that i auditioned with the C1100 as a preamp. The MC601s sound great without a doubt, but i will say that if you are looking for THE BEST sound for the money, these would not be it. However, Mcintosh remains UNMATCHED when it comes to looks and also resale value. Every other amp above depreciates much faster than Mcintosh.

That said, my future purchase (when i can find a steal of a deal) will be the Pass labs 350.8. I am tempted to make a preliminary statement which is that i feel this amp could be THE BEST stereo amp under 30k dollars. Again, i will be able to say more and confirm once i own it. I hope this update can help you all in your buying decisions!


128x128whitecamaross

Showing 23 responses by yyzsantabarbara

yyzsantabarbara
647 posts
 
It would be interesting to read your take on the Merrill Veritas. They have a 30 day trial offer. I do not have the proper speakers to try with them myself so I need to go with online reviews.

I would love to hear someone with the amp background of this thread originator do a comparison of amps like Mola Mola, Merrill Verita, and Theta Digital Prometheus. How good are these new amp designs relative to the status quo
yyzsantabarbara
647 posts
 
@whitecamaross 
Excellent choice with the Luxman 509x. I hope to buy that unit for my office system sometime soon. I will be following along for your observations.

It would be interesting to see what your opinion of the Benchmark AHB2 ($3K each) running in mono block form. I was originally thinking of getting the Luxman m900 and c900 separates to power KEF Blade 2 in my living room. However, today  I am now seriously thinking the AHB2's maybe even better for my tastes, wallet, and rack space. I already have 1 AHB2 unit in my office system (along with a Benchmark DAC3) and it is terrific. It sounds so much different than any amp I have owned before. My exposure to amps is limited relative to yours so that is why I am making this post.

Anyways, it would be interesting to me and maybe some others where you see the AHB2 fit in your pantheon of amps. I would also get the new Benchmark HPA4  Line amp ($3K for volume control)  to use with the AHB2's. I am going to order that soon just to play around with it in the office system until the Luxman 509x comes in.

https://benchmarkmedia.com/collections/headphone-amplifiers

I will be getting a top of the line DAC to hook up to his living room system. I do not which one yet. So new System could be DAC + HPA4 + AHB2 + KEF Blade 2.

In the event that you get Revel Salons again (I have owned Salon1s previously) the Benchmark amps are supposed to be able to drive them in mono.
yyzsantabarbara
647 posts
 
@techno_dude 

I am not convinced yet that  JNITSL is correct for the AHB2. When I buy my KEF Blade speakers I will take the Benchmark amp(s) currently in my office to the shop in Los Angeles that sells both Blades and Luxman. I will compare them directly with the following:

luxman 900 preamp 
luxman 900 amps (2 of these for mono configuration)

The Luxman's were my original thought to drive the speakers. My conversations with KEF representatives last year indicated a Luxman m900 mono version would likely be better for the Blades depending on the room size.

I have heard the Luxman c900 pre and a different $40K Luxman mono block driving the new $100K Vivid Giga speakers. They sounded great, yet I am still wondering if the AHB2 can hang with them. To my ears the AHB2 amp sounds superb. Maybe the problem (or my luck) is my ears.

Anyways, I am looking forward to hearing the thoughts on here on the Luxman gear. 

yyzsantabarbara
647 posts
 
I heard the Vivid G1 Spirit with Luxman c900u and the 1000 watt Luxman mono blocks (I believe the m900u is considered better) and it was sensational. Great with all types of music. It can play seriously loud and still sound perfect.

In fact I liked it so much that I have decided to look into the Vivid G4 v2 powered by the Luxman 509x for my office. I am also considering the Vivid Kaya 25 if my office is too small for the G4. I will also keep my existing Audience 1+1 speaker in the office. 

Looking forward to the feedback here on the various G1 setups.
yyzsantabarbara
647 posts
 
WC, as an FYI I am posting this email response I received from 1 of the Vivid speaker founders.

"We have at times at shows around the world used our GIYA G1 Sprit with the rear spine almost touching the back wall of the room, due to diminutive size of the room, with quite acceptable results!"
yyzsantabarbara
647 posts
 
@whitecamaross  May I just you try the new Tash Sultana disc FLOW STATE with whatever system you are using at the moment. This came out a few days ago and I think it would sound incredible on a good system, especially the song Blackbird. Available on Tidal.

You are welcome.
yyzsantabarbara
647 posts
 
@whitecamaross I was going back on this thread to see if you ever compared the Mark Levinson 585 and the Luxman 509x integrated. I have heard the ML recently and liked it a lot. I have not heard the Luxman 509x and will not be able to hear it with the Magico A3 speaker I heard the ML with. Do you remember which of the 2 units you preferred?
yyzsantabarbara
647 posts
 
@whitecamaross Thanks. After listening to the ML 585 I came to understand some of the things you described about it in your posts. I also noticed those characteristics you have described during my demo. I did this listening at the dealer with Magico A3. I am buying the A3's. I thought the ML 585 was great with the A3.

Your recommendation of the Luxman 509x carries a lot of weight and I will likely get that from A'gon unheard. A few others have mentioned this combo.

yyzsantabarbara
647 posts
 
I first heard the Magico A3 with the following gear:
ML 526 preamp
ML 536 mono blocks
Chord DAVE dac
Magic A3

It was fatigue free and fairly detailed with great separation between the instruments. Imaging was outstanding with air around everything. I was never much of a Mark Levinson fan thinking there gear was over priced. I am also not a tube guy and prefer the clarity I get from SS gear. I was very happy to have such a positive experience with the latest ML gear, did not hear the syrupy sound mentioned in the above post with the older ML gear. So much so that I am going to buy the Magico A3’s.

BTW - when I put in the ML 585 into the mix I felt it got a good deal of what I heard with the gear mentioned above. You could tell it was not as good but thoroughly enjoyable nevertheless.

Saying all of this I am definitely going to check out the Luxman 509x. It also does 2 things (other than sound differences) differently than the ML585. It has no dac and it has 2 sets of speaker outputs (useful to me).

@denon1 Sounds like good advice. There is an audio event in LA with a Luxman dealer. I think I will head out to that. Usually not the best way to demo but the dealer will not be wasting time with me on a 1-on-1 basis. I do have the ML 585 in my back pocket if I do not find anything I like better.
yyzsantabarbara
647 posts
 
Mola Mola = fish

@jafant  I took my Audience balanced interconnects and speakers cables. They are second from the top of the Audience lineup. 
yyzsantabarbara
647 posts
 
During my A3 audition on Saturday I made a point of listening to the ML 585 and Magico A3 at low volume. We observed that we could hear all of the music range at the lowest volume. The dealer said the reason for this was that the Magico A3 had an inert enclosure and the ML 585 had a very low noise floor.
yyzsantabarbara
647 posts
 
@whitecamaross  I heard the Vivid Giya G1 Spirit last year with Luxman c900u and Luxman monos. Last week I heard the new Vivid Kaya 90 speaker with NAD electronics. The sound of the Kaya was very similar to the G1. Fast, detailed, with good bass. I did not have the best seat to hear it as with the G1 Spirit but the Kaya 90 sound very similar.

The Kaya will fit in many more rooms. You can keep it close to walls and the imaging is supposedly different (better?) than the Giya line due to changes in the drivers.
yyzsantabarbara
647 posts
 
@whitecamaross  Since this is essentially a thread about amps I would like to make a suggestion to try the Lyngdorf 3400 room correction integrated. I recently ran into the situation where I could not get a floor stander speaker, the Magico A3, into a 10W x 11.5L x 9H office space. I was bummed that I could not make this work with the 2 integrated I had in mind, Luxman 509x or Mark Levinson 585. It would have been too boomy.

However, after some research on here and after speaking to Neal Van Berg a dealer at soundsciencecat.com about the Lyngdorf 3400. I am going to buy the Magico A3 (from another dealer) and also buy the Lyngdorf from him to tame the room. I have not heard the Lyngdorf but have heard all the other components I have listed above.

Whitecamaross, since you have so much experience with various amps your feedback on this very popular room correction system would be very enlightening. Maybe you can get a demo unit from Neal for a home trial. He is pretty confident on the quality of the Lyngdorf and free publicity on the most popular A’Gon thread cannot hurt.

He would likely say the Neolith would work in your room along with the Vivids (especially them since they can be against the back wall). One more thing that this unit can do is output the DSP corrected signal to an separate analog amp. This give you some flexibility if you do not like the Class D on the Lyngdorf.

http://lyngdorf.com/tdai-3400/

neal@soundsciencecat.com


yyzsantabarbara
647 posts
 
@techno_dude What kind of dumb ass statement is that? I gave a suggestion to try something that I am interested in and likely many others.

"I feel caught in a marketing operation" - I got no words for this man. Wow.
yyzsantabarbara
647 posts
 
@whitecamaross 

" anyone ever heard the  EgglestonWorks Viginti' loudspeaker? "

I heard them with Bryston 7B3 about 1/2 hours after hearing the Vivid Kaya 90 with NAD electronics. I preferred the Vivid but the music was different so were the associated equipment. The demo was in a large room with a lot of people (who were quiet) and it was not too long of a demo.

The Vivid seemed clear and fast to me. I would not take this as the EgglestonWorks did not have those attributes. In the short demo I preferred the Vivid. The guys sitting around me loved the EW and were saying they thought it was a more expensive speaker. I did not feel the love.

On the same day I also heard the Magico A3 and liked it more than the EW, but not as much as the more expensive Vivid Kaya 90. I am planning to buy the A3.

BTW - another speaker that may make it onto the USA is the Yamaha NS 5000 (now available in Canada). That is one speaker that is making me pause from pulling the trigger on the Magico A3.

yyzsantabarbara
647 posts
 
@whitecamaross
Nice post above. I want to thank you on something you wrote above on speaker placement. For the past 2 weeks, I have been moving my speakers all over the place in my office trying to get the imaging correct when I sit at my desk slightly to one side of center. Your post was a lightbulb moment on placement and I got the sound almost perfect now.
yyzsantabarbara
647 posts
 
@whitecamaross You should ask around on the Mola Mola Makua preamp with DAC. The stand alone DAC was also recently released. 

https://www.mola-mola.nl/makua.php


yyzsantabarbara
647 posts
 
@riaa_award_collectors_on_facebook1 On computer audiophile site the Mola Mola trounced a lot of DACs including some u listed. But it is not unusual to see results that vary such as this where one group likes it and the other not so much.

If I get lucky (in 2020)  I may look into a preamp and/or DAC in the Mola Mola price range. I only bring it up in this thread because the tech used seems rather interesting and a few people with supposedly good DAC’s are excited by this one.

Back to regular programming.
yyzsantabarbara
647 posts
 
@ron17 I did not know about the in-home demo of the Makua. I think I may look into that when I have the opportunity to build my living room system. If you are open to it, how about posting your system on the A'gon virtual system section. People can learn a lot for that info. 
yyzsantabarbara
647 posts
 
@whitecamaross  I mentioned the Tambaqui DAC earlier and you said that resell would be an issue. So in that light a new development on this DAC. 

"GTT Audio is circulating a demo Tambaqui to prospective buyers for home audition in the USA. Contact Bill Parish if you're interested.
USA price is $13,400"

This DAC is going to start getting a lot of user feedback soon. The guys buying it are people that have owned the DACs being mentioned recently on this thread.

$90K+ MSB, dCS Vivaldi, Playback Design, Lampizator, D1 Esoteric, Mytek, Berkeley, Aqua , Weiss and a few more + PS Audio

yyzsantabarbara
647 posts
 
Nice to see the Lyngdorf Room Perfect finally make an appearance in this thread. I myself will be doing a DSP shootout with the Lyngdorf | Linn | Antherm STR in a glass walled room small conference room with Paradigm Persona 5F.


The DSP engines I will use are ROOM PERFECT | SPACE Optimization | Arc2.
yyzsantabarbara
647 posts
 
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9b64a-mcintosh-men220-tube

This is the Mac DSP unit that someone above mentioned above as being the one to get (from MAC lineup).
yyzsantabarbara
647 posts
 
@whitecamaross  There is 1 A'gon thread active about the new KRELL XD that are coming out. There was another thread that got deleted by the thought police. A shame for people looking to learn about new gear.

I am considering the Krell XD 125 for my small room to pair with a DSP capable preamp.
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