Need power conditioner advice. In reference to Furman/Tice/PS Audio/Richard Gray.
I currently have a Furman Elite 20 power conditioner that I use in a daisy chain method with other power conditioning devices (the Furman is where most devices are plugged into) and would like some advice to see if it is worth it to perhaps switch over to another power conditioner. I am really only looking for comparisons between these units mentioned below at this time. Keep in mind my funds are limited for an upgrade at this time.
If I do a large upgrade I've thought about both a Furman Reference 20i or an older PS Audio Power Plant Premier as they both seem to populate the used market with enough frequency. Between these two units which would be the better upgrade for audio, which for video?; and if you can a brief elaboration would be of help. Just assume both are in very good shape internally (I know the Premier is an older model).It would take longer to save for these units, and would take away from some money I have been looking to perhaps spend on other things or save, so while I realize this may be the best upgrade route it comes at a cost (no pun intended).
For a more lateral cost exchange I've seen Tice Power Block III Signature units (the extra 3 outlets vs. the Elite's 13 would be nice), and Richard Gray 1200's pop up often enough to get me curious. I realize the Tice units are likely nearing or over 15 years of age, but for comparison purposes let's say the internals of these units are in very good shape.How do these compare to the Furman Elite 20 (or at least the Elite 15 if that is one's best point of reference) in both audio and video performance (separately); and of course any elaboration would help, even a brief one. I've only seen one mention of comparison between the Elite and a Richard Gray and it was split on performance between audio and video, so the more opinions the better. I am using a tube amp and headphones for audio and an hd crt (with a PC source) for video if this helps.
My devices aren't a big power drain mind you, but I'm mainly looking for performance increases in terms of filtration and such (and possible extra outlets if the Tice is good enough) and not something that can take on more power. Thank you for any and all help.
It is difficult to choose the right device...Filtration implicate introducing new electronics device in the audio grid... The price to pay is the result of a trade-off generally between a certain clarity, a cleanliness that is sometimes too much bleach... Because of that I prefer passive filtering with stones and crystals...But I have a Panamax power conditioner that I use with stones and that help very much to reintroduce some colors trough this artificial window which is a power conditioner very useful to protect against surge of power ...For your precise questions tough I am not competent to answer them...I wish you the best...
I would stay away from the PS Audio PPP. That was the one made overseas, and had problems. I hated the one I had and sold it. Plus for some reason the PPP is overpriced. Most sellers seem to be asking the original retail. which is way way too much. Plus it is out of date, unrepairable.. all told a terrible investment at his time. ANY other PS Audio product is a better choice than a PPP. I own a Furman REF20 I bought used nine years ago, and still use it, recently swapped to Furutech duplex inside it. For your needs.. I would suggest try adding some PS Audio Noise harvesters around the home. They do not need to be right next to the stereo lines, or on the conditioner. Nearby is good. If you are using multiple devices, the first one in line should have one or two PS Audio Noise Harvesters.They are on sale right now at Music Direct $75. And the only reason they are better than other more expensive similar types is they are way cheaper now. They used to also be $299, then $199, then $150, now $99. I own seven of them and really like them I started out with two, and two did a lot to clean p the AC in conjunction with a power conditioner. Testing with a noise sniffer the PS Audio did a good job. Each one removed about 150 to 200 ’units’ of noise on the line (where 0 to 999 is the usual range. and the average noisy line is 750) You can use the blinking light to discover the worst offenders! (For me the laptop power supply! the plasma TV, but only when turned on, and my CD changers. I was surprised how well the Noise Harvesters helped to make my system sound better.
I would have to clarify the Tice Powerblock III Signature version would be the "C" revision (the last revision; again 15-18 years old, but that doesn't always mean a weak product). I also realize that unfortunately the power cables are built in to this unit.
I do have multiple PS Audio Noise Harvesters as well as Quietlines, Akiko Tuning Sticks, and Electro Clear QRT plug in units at work (all thankfully gained at a discount). Some are placed throughout the house, some I've made essentially a super filtration strip with (they seem to work better with multiple similar units plugged into an old Monster 2100 or 1100 power strip and then that strip plugged into the Furman than the units individually plugged into Furman outlets, it's weird, but I've tested it out in multiple ways). I also have Bybee QSE's a Shakti Stone, and some other non-powered tweaks to help. Every little thing helps a bit, especially given how many things are plugged into the Furman (including a PC/computer which makes the Noise Harvesters act up; they rarely blink when the PC is off). Still if something works better than the Elite, especially at an affordable price, it would only help.
I greatly appreciate the advice on the Power Plant Premier. Some have popped up as low as the $700 range so it was tempting. I've also wondered about Audio Magic conditioners, especially with their internal silver wiring- seeing as I use power cables with silver conductors I think there would be good synergy there; but I have no clue as to how well they work in terms of filtration and resolution.
Synergistic Research conditioners with enough outlets seem to be out of my price range. I've looked at Shunyata units as well, but again ones with enough outlets seem out of my price range. Most of the other premium brands like Pure Power and Equi=Tech seem to be beyond my price range as well. I already have a Monster 7000 MKII Signature conditioner and MIT and Transparent isolators, so I'm aware of the type of filtration and resolution those manufacturers provide, which is another reason I'm curious about how these other manufacturers' conditioners are since each manufacturer's power products have a certain signature audio and video performance in my experience.
Since you have many AC things and seem to be good at arranging the parts of you AC cleaning.. I would then suggest a high end duplex. A Furutech GTX-D Rhodium NCF. or Oyaide top of the line duplex outlet(s) Replacing all the AC duplex in my entire system (including as mentioned the ones inside my Furman, the increase in clarity was great) but even one or two added made a positive difference.
I agree with Elizabeth regarding PSA's Power Plants, too many stories of breakdowns and repair issues. Things improved for PS Audio's power product's manufacturing quality after that model however. Don't let that one model taint your perception of PS Audio's products. You mentioned video performance as an issue in your considerations. Every system is different and one person's experience is not applicable to every situation. That said, I found that PS Audio's Dectet was a phenomenal performer for my dual purpose video/second audio system. The ten outlets are just what I needed and the Dectet improved both audio and video performance ( I did not plug my power amp into the Dectet however.) A very high value proposition for $500 retail in my experience.
Thank you for everyone's help so far, I greatly appreciate it. Elizabeth, a change in outlets is definitely something I plan for the future, thank you for your suggestion. I've actually been wanting to create a thread and ask for an outlet comparison since there seems to be a lot of high end outlets out there (from reasonably priced to the very expensive Synergistic Blue and Furutech NCF outlets) and I've only seen a limited amount of comparisons. I'd like to go all out though and get permanent replacements all at once, so that would cost a good amount and I'll need to save quite a bit for that (18 outlets for all the tech in two different rooms).
That and some fuse changes on the non Furman power products and my broadcast monitor are things I've put on my to do list. In the fuse case, due to the power products and monitor I own having old fuses and three fuses needing replacement now (two dead, one close). I've been wondering about fuse comparisons as well since Synergistic, Hi Fi Tuning, Audio Magic, Audio Horizons, Furutech, and Alan Maher all make premium fuses; though I do not have any experience as to what changes one may expect with a swap since I haven't needed to change fuses on any a/v products until now. There seem to be reasonable deals on HiFi Tuning fuses though (under $40 for their premium silver ones, even less for their models down the line), so that has made me curious. I may try out a single change against a currently good fuse and then see if the price is worth it to buy something other than the generic fuses.
I think I may end up waiting until a Furman IT Reference 20i comes into a good price range used since I'm used to the Furman brand, but I'm still very curious about the other brands. Two Furman References popped up in the past few months at great prices and I waited too long to make a move, so my regret there gave me a bit of an itch on that front.
I jumped on a sale of Furutch duplex this past late Summer early Autumn. I spent a lot but I also feel it would be a one time only upgrade. And I am glad I did it. Sadly they are not on sale now... Something to watch for though.
Not so fast regarding PS Audio PPP. I bought one used three years ago for I think $800 and it has been working fine while doing a good job, including for 120watt/ch quite high current integrated. But when the wall current is particularly bad the system does sound like junk, still much better than without it or with an inexpensive old Furman that I have. That said, I heard too that newer PS Audio models are better and much more reliable, but more expensive of course. In any case, you will want good power cord from the wall to regenerator. Elizabeth's Furutech duplexes should help too but again - money money money.
Ditto: xnay on the PPP. I even sent mine back for a flat fee full gut rebuild. Just didn't do the job and the annoying fan kept cycling even when system was not playing. I have tried many, most kill the dynamics. None compare to my Core Power Technology 1800. Said to be available in March
WireWorld just introduced their own which should be worth investigating.
Thank you again everyone for your advice. I do have good power cables, so thankfully that is not an issue. The Wirewold Spaceport is affordable, though not enough outlets for me. I have to deal with a bunch of video equipment along with audio, so 10 outlets on a conditioner minimum fills my needs. Unfortunately the Chang only has 8 outlets as well, though the
X Series H1
has enough (it's in the Furman 20i Reference price range though, so a bit expensive and another saver). The older
CLS HT 1000 also has enough and one is on eBay, so I'm going to check out reviews on that (built in power cord though, but that's not a deal breaker). Unfortunately in my location there aren't any audio dealers that I know of around, so I'm unable to try things out (I know Cable Company has a lending deal, but the 5% deposit is non-refundable).
The last time I talked to the Cable Company, they explained that the 5% is put into your "account" and is applied to your next purchase. Things may have changed. I'd call and ask.
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