Need recommendation for amplifier

Hi rvpiano,

    Which Nuforce class D mono-block model do you own that went bad?
    Did Nuforce inform you that your mono-block cannot be repaired?
     It seems odd to me Nuforce would be unable to repair one of their own class D mono amps.  They're really not that complicated since they basically consist of an input section, class D power module  and a switch mode power supply (smps).  It's possible but unlikely that more than 1 of these internal components went bad at the same time but it's more likely one of them is the culprit.  Since all off these internal components are modular and none are very expensive, I don't understand why Nuforce could not repair your amp to like-new condition at a reasonable cost.
     However, you may just want to try out different amplification in your system.  If this is the case, it would be useful to know whether you'd prefer to stay with class D or prefer  another amp topology and whether you prefer a single stereo amp or a pair of mono-blocks.  
     Please clarify.

Thanks,
   Tim

rvpiano,

    That is a sad story.  If you want a very good pair of class D monos in your price range I'd suggest D-Sonic M-600 monos that I own and love on my Magnepans or the Red Dragon M-500 or M-1000 monos that get great reviews.

Tim

rvpiano,
That was fast! Good choice buying the Red Dragon M-500 monos, congrats.
Yes, the 45-day tryout period is very good but I seriously doubt you’ll want to return them. Plenty of clean power and high damping factor should enable your DQ 20 speakers to really sound their best.
The combo of your CJ tube preamp with a very good pair of very neutral class D monos will allow your system sound to be influenced primarily by your preamp and sources so I hope you’re currently very satisfied with the quality of both the CJ and your sources. Your new Red Dragon amps do not add anything to the signal to compensate for subpar recordings, cabling or upstream components.
My D-Sonic M-600 monos are also very neutral and they enabled me to much more easily distinguish how any changes I made in my upstream components or interconnects/power cabling affected my system’s overall sound. This aso included tube swaps/upgrades I made to my former VTL 2.5L preamp.

Enjoy,
Tim

rvpiano,

     Glad to help and hope everything works out great for you.   I actually almost bought a pair of the Red Dragon M-500 but they were out of stock on the black models.  I think the M-500  and D-Sonic M-600 both are very neutral amps even though they utilize different class D power modules, the D-Sonic use the newer Pascal modules and I believe the Red Dragon use the latest Ice modules.
    I'm almost certain you're really going to like them.  Plus, the red dragon symbol that lights up on the faceplates is very cool.
 Enjoy,
   Tim

rvpiano,

     I know you just ordered a pair of Red Dragon m-500 monos but I've been doing some online research on Nuforce and found out some information you may not know that I think is important that I let you know about:
     In 2014, NuForce’s cofounder, Jason Lim, with backing from the OEM factory, bought the assets of NuForce’s high-end division, obtained the rights to NuForce technologies, and formed NuPrime Audio, Inc. (Shortly thereafter the NuForce company was sold to Optoma.)    So, technically, Nuforce didn't go out of business but were actually bought by a company called Optoma, an international manufacturer of video projectors.  
     As far as I understand it thus far, Jason Lim was more interested in building and selling affordable hi-end amps, dacs and integrated amps with built in dacs and formed Nuprime for this purpose.  He used the hi-end assets of Nuforce technologies he purchased from the OEM to form the basis of his new company, Nuprime. 
      He then sold Nuforce, consisting mostly of the remaining non-hi-end assets, to Optoma.  Optoma is now named Optoma-Nuforce and they're selling similar but more modest and lower priced class D products than Nuprime. 
      I bored you with all the above so you better understand the 2 main things I think you should know:

1.  I think Nuprime might be more helpful in repairing your Nuforce mono-block than the former Nuforce technician you've been dealing with. 
     I suggest you contact Nuprime and see if they'll be able to repair your amp since Nuprime now owns the hi-end assets of Nuforce  and may still support your amp (I think yours may be considered a former hi-end Nuforce amp),  Here's a link to Nuprime's website

   www.nuprimeaudio.com.  

2.  After researching Nuprime and some of their products' reviews, I think you may want to seriously consider their mono-blocks and compare them to the Red Dragon M-500 monos.  You could read some reviews on their mono-blocks as a start and, if interested,  see if they offer in-home trial periods, too.

     I'm just starting to learn about Nuprime's very interesting mono-blocks and may also inquire about an in-home trial.  What has me so interested is that they seem to be combining a class A input stage with class D power modules like some other very expensive and very well reviewed mono-block companies do, for example Devialet.   Due to the class D power module's extreme neutrality, the tiny class A signal is amplified faithfully to speaker driving levels and the resultant sound is remarkably similar to the sound produced by traditional class A amps which is overwhelmingly considered by most experts and audiophiles to be the pinnacle of solid state amp audio performance.  
    Whether Nuprime's mono-blocks actually succeeded and have the sound qualities of a good class A amp is the big question that can only be answered by professional reviewers or, better yet, our own determination via an in-home audition in our own systems.  My opinion is that I'm very interested in these Nuprime monos even if the sound quality is just in the neighborhood of good class A amps since they are so much smaller, lighter, more electrically efficient, cooler running and so much more affordable than a traditional class A amp.
     What do you think?
        Tim
  

rvpiano,

     Are you getting a stereo amp or the Stratos mono-blocks? 
     Regardless, I know the Odysseys are very good class A/B amps but I really think you're making a mistake you will regret later. 
     Do you have the means to buy the Odyssey and Red Dragon, compare them both in your system, keep the winner and send back the loser?
     I'm almost certain that, if you do, you'll discover the Red Dragon will outperform the Odyssey in every category  most of us care about, and I do mean every category:  bass performance (higher damping factor), distortion level, power, dynamic range, noise floor along with mid-range and treble neutrality and detail.  
     There are also numerous advantages the Red Dragon amps have that are not related to sound quality:  smaller size, lighter, much more electrically efficient (so much so they can be left on 24/7 if desired to keep them constantly at peak operating temperature which eliminates amp warm-up waits), much cooler running and less expensive.
    Hopefully, you'll be able to compare the Red Dragon and Odyssey amps directly in your own system and determine for yourself which amps perform best.   
    My main point of writing this response, however, was just in case you do not have the opportunity to directly compare the Red Dragon and Odyssey amps.  I thought it might be useful for you to have an informed opinion, based on my decades of using good quality class A/B amps in my systems before discovering the significant performance gains provided by using good quality class D amps instead. 
     I first realized the significant performance gains provided by good class D amps when I replaced my Aragon 4004 MKII class A/B amp with a Class D Audio stereo SDS-440-CS amp  in my combo ht and 2-ch music system.  I quickly noticed the class D sound quality advantages mentioned above and subsequently replaced the 2 remaining good quality class A/B amps in my system with class D amps (an Emerald Physics stereo amp and D-Sonic M-600 mono-blocks)and attained the same significant increases in sound quality performance I described earlier.   
     Of course, it's completely your choice on which amp to use in your system.  I'm just giving you my opinion to try and help you make an informed decision.

Best wishes,
  Tim    

Hi rvpiano,

     If the Red Dragon M-500 mono-blocks are arriving tomorrow, I suggest you just try them out in your system.  I think you're in for a very pleasant surprise.  You've got 45 days to try them out and there's virtually no risk.  
     I thought you cancelled the Red Dragon order.
     Both the Belles and Odyssey are good amps but my opinion is M-500 are a cut above both.
     I think I may be getting spoiled with my class D amps.  I've had them on 24/7 for over 3 yrs now.  I use them every day, I've had no problems and they still sound great for ht and music.  
     I'm curious to hear what you think of the Red Dragons.  
     Are you planning on trying them out?

Later,
 Tim

Hi rvpiano,

     Which Odyssey did you order?
     Klaus should not be giving you a hard time about  a full refund. 
;If you paid with a credit card and he continues to give you a hard time, you can always register a dispute and they'll deal with Klaus and the refund.

     I'm glad you're going to audition the Red Dragons.  Compared to the Odyssey, I think you'll be pleased not only with the sound but also with the money you'll save on both the purchase price and electricity as long as you own them.

     Since you have 45 days to decide whether you like them in your system or not, you might as well just relax and enjoy the process. 
    Please report back on your impressions once you've had a thorough audition.  
Later,
 Tim     

"All of a sudden, after playing the unit for several hours, the amp seems to have kicked in. Sounds much better.
Who new?"

Hi rvpiano,

I was going to post after your ’1st impressions’ post (stating the Red Dragons sounded a bit bright) to suggest you just wait a few days for them to calm down but, from your last post, it sounds like your amps already did before I could post.
I probably should have warned you about this apparent tendency for class D amps to sound a bit bright right out of the box that disappears within the first couple of days of use. I noticed this with all 3 of my class D amps; 2 stereo and a pair of monos all different brands.
In my experience, the good news is the brightness goes away rather quickly and then the performance continues to improve (more tonally correct and natural) for several weeks afterward until they stabilize. Too small a sample size to claim a tendency but I’m basing my comments not only on my experiences but also on numerous other class D amp owners reported similar experiences, too.
I really don’t recall a specific point in time when I ever thought during this ’break-in’ period that the amps had achieved their optimum performance level. Only in retrospect can I estimate it took about 6-8 weeks for my class D amps to reach their current optimum performance levels.
Since class D amps are so efficient, I leave my amps on 24/7 so they’re idling constantly and immediately perform at optimum levels.
I suggest you may want to do the same (I only turn them off when I’ll be out of the house for more than a day).
It sounds like you’re currently mildly pleased with the Red Dragons thus far. I think you can expect a similar break-in period for your amps with performance improving significantly over the coming weeks.
I would just caution against making any decisions until you’ve auditioned them for at least a month or so. Worst case is you return them and try something else.
Hope this helped a bit and please keep us posted on your impressions; good, bad or otherwise.

Tim

Hi Richard,

     I just saw you ordered the Belles 150 to try out, too.  Smart move, testing out as many different amps as you can in your home, for no or little cost and in your own system seems to me to be the best method I can think of to ensure you buy an amp you know you'll enjoy. 
     You're welcome for assisting you in your search but I actually enjoy trying to help others with their systems.  I get to vicariously enjoy their system improvements without switching all those connecting cables around.
     I know I tend to encourage people to give class D amps a try before buying anything else but not just because they provided such a significant upgrade in my system's performance but also because I think they offer the best bang for the buck.
     Of course, I realize that class D amps aren't always the best solution for everyone.  There are many good amps available that will provide very good sound quality in most people's systems.  But I'm fairly certain that good quality class D amps will outperform the vast majority of class A/B currently available since they're smaller, lighter, run cooler, are more efficient, quieter, more detailed, lower in distortion, have better bass response, are more dynamic and usually cost less.  I have heard a handful of very good class A/B amps that outperform some good quality class D amps, however, they're all quite expensive.
     I would urge you to ignore amp type and just choose the amp that you determine performs the best and is within your budget.
     

   
       
     

Hi rvpiano,

     Glad you found an amp you really like, that's the hardest and most important thing.

Enjoy,
 Tim