@b4icu
Power amp is CH precision M1, speaker system is Gryphon Pendragon, cable length 3 meter, cable is Kharma reference type, bi-amped, however all connected to the same binding posts, so that will possibly total AWG 4/0 or more. Next year I will add another M1, so may be that counts as well?? |
@b4icu
You seem to misunderstand my point, all I'm saying here is that even amongst you guys -I do not doubt the intelligence of any of you in this discussion, in fact I'm often impressed- there is a disagreement, so for somebody like me it will be difficult to come to a simple conclusion.
So if I would be using a GPS NAV, whilst obviously it would not be clear in giving me directions how to find the best route, I may switch it off, and find my way the old fashioned way. Don't worry, I have done that for over 40 years or so, and it is not impossible. Currently I do not know if I have the best possible system at home, or may be that I have paid too much for that, I'm fine with that too. I have the satisfaction I'm looking for, so I'm okay. |
So now what....
Myself being a mechanical engineer, I mostly have no clue what you guys, being talented electrical engineers, are talking about. However, fortunately or unfortunately, as the debate -even amongst the most talented electrical engineers- continues, I will have to try out cables, and let my ears decide which ones I like the most. I will have no technical explanation on why a certain cable sounds better to my opinion...but for me, I'm fine with that. That's also what I like about this hobby, there is no clear 1+1=2 solution. I would not even like that...
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@b4icu
Sorry, I meant the cable type is for bi-wiring, meaning directly after the amp output cable spades (factory terminated) the cable is split into two, so at the speaker terminals it could feed into two pair of terminals per speaker. Luckily the terminals used for the Gryphon Pendragons are really very big, so they can accommodate 2 spades in one terminal, That way I have double the wire gauge. Any use, I don’t know, I already had these cables anyway, and I’m quite happy with the overall performance of my set-up.
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@b4icu As mentioned before, the cables were made by Kharma. (grand reference speaker cable). Did not buy new, but at an auction. This is a silver/gold alloy cable, with an anti-vibration tube around it. Does it matter? I don’t know, all I know is that I’m happy with what I’m hearing. Price?? This is an old cable, which many years ago would cost US $ 20k or more, I paid about 1/10th of that amount for a 3 meter set. The diameter of the conductor going into one spade (factory terminated, and bigger spades than usual) is about 8mm. So I’m using two of that. Why? because it’s there anyway. Bought the cables years ago for another speaker set-up. By the way, in principle I don’t buy many new cables. Prices of second hand cables drop quite a bit, prices of cables at auctions are even much lower yet. Used to use Siltech cables in the past, did like those as well. Again, never bought new cables. |
@b4icu
First of all thanks for going the distance and trying to help. It's really appreciated. As for the cable, as mentioned before, this cable is an old cable, which I had bought several years ago at a very reasonable price. Any money spent on buying a 12 AWG wire is extra money in my case. Most likely my current very thick cable won't harm either. The main reason I reacted is for you to show that you don't just talk, but will take the opportunity to TRY to help people. Some may appreciate, others won't. That's okay, accept it as a matter of fact. Of course I know that in my particular case the power amp is inside the bass towers, and I know that for ribbons other rules apply. That's also the reason I haven't spent any money on buying speaker cables specifically for the ribbons. I'm a ribbon lover, (the sound they produce) have used Apogee Grands before. Again, appreciated for the effort you have put in. Did not expect that.
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@b4icu
You wrote "The Bi wire - Bi amp on the Gryphon Pendragon Mid/High unit won't give you any improvement. only cost way more, if you think of another pair of CH M1's ($37,000.- each)."
No, that's a little misunderstanding, I have no intention to buy another pair of M1 amps. Currently I'm using one M1 in stereo mode. Later I will add another M1 and will operate the units in mono mode. So no bi-amping. just mono blocks. The bi-wiring cable is just there because it has been there for many years, not specifically for this set up. I have no intention of buying another cable, just use as is. |
By the way...if you can buy a M1 for $ 37k...you must have negotiated a very good deal.... ;)
Unfortunately, I paid a bit more some 5 month ago. (stereo version) |
@b4icu
I believe that the current retail for a set of M1's is little over US $ 100k, however the Pendragons were sold for about US 175k. Bargaining on this kind of equipment is not easy. Even where I live (Indonesia) where indeed you are expected to bargain, however the moment you go for so called "high-end" there is not much bargaining anymore. You may get a good discount on a Toyota, but will pay the full price for a Lamborghini. As mentioned before, I'm happy with the sound I'm getting. Unfortunately current main issue is my room acoustics, I have moved house some time ago, and haven't tuned my new room yet. Major/alarming difference compared to my previous room. But a bit off-topic to elaborate about that on this thread.
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@kosst_amojan
I don't know if a DF of 500 is considered high, but if it is, please listen to the CH Precision M1, you may be surprised how well this one sounds...not that lousy at all. But then again, that is only my opinion, you are at liberty to disagree...
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@b4icu
Honestly speaking, I have tried some different M1 settings in combination with the ribbons, but to my ears no major differences. I'm working out of town, so I can't check what the last settings are. All I can confirm that even IF there are differences, I can't distinguish them from each other with my ears, and using ribbons. In my case, other factors have a much bigger influence on the overall sound, and mainly with regards to room acoustics. Main reason for acquiring the M1 is related to dynamics and transparency. I can only judge by listening, I'm not an electrical engineer so I have to go with what my ears tell me.
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@b4icu
Ok, so let us agree that the wire gauge (cable resistance) is an indicator, and let's say that that has been addressed, so what is your opinion about cable materials, OCC copper, Silver, Silver alloys (Silver/gold) cable construction, possible vibration reducing measures etc. Would you agree that the above variances could possibly result in audible differences? I don't want to touch on other issues like burn in or other possible treatments which are claimed by others to have an impact on the overall sound.
At least I find this thread interesting, it provides us with another "point of view". It may or may not have been a coincidence that when many years ago when I bought the -most likely- biggest gauge speaker cables on the market, that I heard a real improvement with the speakers I was using at that point of time (B&W 802D with Bryston 7B2). I've used these cables ever since, but as you mentioned before, when using with Ribbons different rules apply. (Just for your information as you had asked some time ago about the global feedback settings on my M1, I have checked and found that many month ago I had chosen 0% Global Feedback. But as mentioned earlier, I could not really hear differences with my ears and my speakers.
Again, thanks for your contribution, it's one of the more meaningful threads at this moment. |
@b4icu Why I choose the M1 ?
The M1 provides me the highest dynamics and is more transparent than any other amp I've had or heard. But I have to admit that the difference may also be caused partially by the pre-amp, which I switched at the same time. I have a set-up using everything from the same manufacturer, and this combination is just amazing. |
@b4icu I have not had the chance to compare the FM Acoustics directly to the CH Precision using the same speakers. It’s a known fact that FM Acoustics produces very nice electronics, they have been around for many years as well. I’m quite sure that a full line up of FM Acoustics would perform very well indeed, and so there are still quite a few other manufacturers who produce very nice equipment at the highest level. The point is that they are not always available in the country of residence, so choices are not always as divers as in other (your) countries. What I usually do is use electronics from the same origin, so either a full set up of brand A, or a full set up of brand B. That’s the reason I currently play with C1/X1, D1/X1, L1/X1, M1 all made by CH Precision. (Only the bass towers use Gryphon dedicated amplifiers). Cables are either by CH Precision or Gryphon. Only the speaker cables are made by Kharma, and are also the oldest components in the line up. Usually a manufacturer will do its utmost to "tune" the components to each other, and often a combination of such equipment may perform better than a mixture of different brands. Another point to consider is that it also looks good, to me that’s important too. Speakers may be an exception, and are of a different brand. (Gryphon Pendragon). Sorry, this is a little off topic, but as you had asked for it ;)
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