One Amp To ‘Rule’ Them All....
brettmccee, I understand your preference for a disciplined scientific approach to audio with standards and an agreed upon language devoted to it All words, terms and concepts would be clearly defined and their usage very strictly obeyed. I think many of us recognize you are on an enlightened path that's ultimately leading to establishing logic and order to a currently chaotic HEA environment. I believe all Audiogon members, even some of our dimmer brethren, realize we should applaud your vision and encourage your efforts towards discovering the "One Amp To Rule Them All". Now, for the Good News! (you should probably sit down before proceeding.): We all voted and decided to put you in charge of transforming the chaotic HEA environment into the inspired and orderly environment you've envisioned and detailed. Unfortunately, this is an unpaid position but you do have the remainder of your lifetime as the allotted timeframe. Best wishes on your mission and please let us know when it's completed. Tim |
brettmcee, Are you actually just looking for a good amp to buy? If so, I think you phrased your post question in a manner that will not get you a satisfying answer. It seems to me that you're looking for a shortcut in your search for an amp that does most things well, an understandable attempt to save time and guard against a poor choice. You're obviously not going to receive a universally agreed upon named amp that is considered the best by Audiogon members. If I'm correct, I suggest you just say so. A better approach is to state your budget, room dimensions,ancillary equipment/speakers along with typical music played and preferred volume levels. Just trying to help, Tim |
brettmcee: "That amp does not need to be perfect, but it needs to be competent, consistent, reasonably affordable and something we all can/could/will have a chance to hear." Okay, that clarifies your question for me. I would say that mikesfinest23's suggestion of a Hypex NCore based class D amp is a suggestion that meets all of your criteria you mentioned above. These are actually a range of amps that are the best method I'm aware of for 'the masses to gain entry into audiophileland'. These amps have measurable performance levels that objectively equal or surpass some of the finest and most expensive solid state amps both currently and ever made. As mikesfinest23 stated: "Superior measurable characteristics in terms of distortion, damping factor, efficiency, etc. while powering difficult loads down to 2ohms. Not to mention far more affordable that many suggested here..." Here's a good link to learn more about Hypex NCore: https://www.6moons.com/industryfeatures/ncore/1.html Years ago, The Absolute Sound audio magazine defined the ideal amp as "a straight wire with gain". This meant an amp that would take an inputted signal, amplify it faithfully without adding or subtracting anything and output this accurate signal to the speaker. This is exactly what Hypex NCore, and several competing class D power modules, are very good at. The above leads to amps which have a sound quality best described as neutral. Tim |
john1, Very good points. BrettMcee seems to be looking for the best amps available that can handle the low and fluctuating impedance loads of his several models of Infinity Kappa speakers. Why he phrased his question in such an opaque and convoluted manner continues to be a mystery to me, too. He is very slowly and reluctantly beating around the perimeter of his bush of a question for some unknown reason. Tim |
brettmcee: "And honestly, still being relatively new to serious audiophilia, ‘the dance’ seems more like a slow-motion mosh pit than any dance I’ve ever seen." Hello brettmcee, I think I can speak for my fellow Audiogon members and state that you're more than welcome here and we're willing and able to help you with most issues or questions you might have. What's confounding me, and perhaps others, is the roundabout way you asked about good amps for your multiple Infinity Kappa speakers. Never mind how and why someone, who claims to be "new to serious audiophilia", owns three different models of Kappa audiophile type speakers. And why it took you so long to communicate that you're aim is actually to find a good amp that can handle the difficult low impedance loads of your Kappas. I think I'm just accustomed to posters adopting a more straight-forward approach. But, in an effort to help you out, I suggest we just ignore all of the above and you just transition your thread question, from this point forward, to one that is clear, concise, can be communicated in 1-2 sentences and reflects exactly what assistance you're requesting. Thank you, Tim |
brettmcee, Your Kappas are 6 ohm nominal but can drop between 1 and 2 ohms at 90Hz and are notoriously hard to drive. You need a high current amp that at least doubles its power from 8 ohms to 4 ohms but one that can handle loads down to 1-2 ohms is preferable. Only a limited number of amps are capable of this. I'd suggest bi-amping them. If you prefer a single amp and want McIntosh, a used McIntosh MC2500 or MC2600 would likely work well with your Kappas. But used high current amps such as Mark Levinson, Krell, Aragon and Adcom would also work. I can think of some better solutions but would like to first know your budget and whether you'd want new or used. I'd still recommend bi-amping for best results. Some single new high current amps will drive them but would be considerably more expensive unless you're willing to limit the playback volume. Tim |
atmasphere, Thank you for an articulate summary of amps that explains some of the issues involved with amp design and, really, amp selection. My impression is still that brettmcee, despite his contentions otherwise, is looking for some quick answers to a question that can only be properly answered through knowledge and the personal experience of auditioning multiple amps of various types in one's system. Most audio enthusiasts have learned this the hard way and already know well that there's no ideal amp for every system and that choosing an amp for one's system is more complex since there are many factors that must be considered. Factors such as budget, other existing system components especially speakers, room characteristics, types of music typically listened to along with typical volume levels and personal preferences in overall system sound characteristics. Despite this not even being a complete list, brettmcee has only provided one of these factors to base our suggestions on. We are told he owns multiple versions of Infinity Kappa speakers which only further complicates the issue because they're audiophile type speakers that are notoriously hard to drive and, imho, will likely perform best with bi-amplification. So, brettmcee is requesting we tell him the answer to his question, "One Amp that Rules Them All?", with limited info while the likely better question, given his speakers, is 'which 2 amps are best?' Ironic. But oddly I somehow still wish to help, so I'd suggest he put in some effort and search for a powerful class D amp for his bass drivers and a tube amp to drive the midrange and treble drivers that he likes the sound of. Unfortunately, this will require him to get his rump out of his house and gain some personal knowledge and experience. Well, nobody said getting great system performance was going to be easy, right? Tim |
brett mcee: " There must be amplifiers in the world that work well with almost any speaker and are consistent competent performers that are also reasonably affordable. Defining some excellent examples and quite possibly some poor examples would help us all communicate better in terms of degrees about the qualities of any given amplifier in comparison to our benchmark amplifiers." Hello brettmcee, Have you ever considered that an amp that works well with almost any speaker, is a consistent competent performer and is affordable may not even exist? Even if one did exist, do you think the motley crew of knowledgeable and experienced audio junkies assembled here on Audiogon, burdened with their own firmly held audio dogmas like a gaggle of Taliban on an audio jihad, could possibly generally concur on exactly which amp that would be? Of course not. Just as preposterous is expecting this unruly group of independent sonic beauty seekers to agree on benchmarks and a standard patois when discussing audio matters. We're too busy tilting at windmills. I suggest your expressed goal of creating some kind of order and black and white certainty out of a chaotic shades of gray audio enthusiast diaspora will not end well and only result in frustration for all involved, myself included. Best wishes, Tim |
Hello brettmcee, I think you have good intentions and I agree with your thought that more people should have access to quality audio reproduction and that it might even benefit the planet. I certainly don't want to discourage you from gaining entry into high-end audio but I disagree with you that it's difficult and unfriendly. I'm a bit confused about your perspective since you seem to believe gaining entry is akin to joining the Freemasons. There are no secret handshakes or passwords...….. as far as you know. Just a dumb joke. There's no permission required to join our lunatic fringe, it's just making a personal decision that you'd like to listen to your music of choice in your home reproduced at the highest quality possible with the only constraints being your knowledge, experience and budget. For myself, it began with a love of music and subsequent general studies course in college called something like 'A Basic Understanding of Stereo Hi-Fi and Home Music Reproduction'. If I recall correctly, I was just trying to satisfy the number of required credit hours of general studies courses for my Bachelors Degree and it sounded more interesting to me than Orienteering. However, this was actually a very good class that was very informative and sparked a lifelong interest in high quality audio and later video equipment. The class had technical aspects of how music reproduction functioned electronically and mechanically along with explanations of the relevant standardized quality specifications. But it also had artistic aspects such as the various types of music and a good quality system (loaners from the local Stereo shop) setup in the classroom for demonstrations. This is how I 'gained access to quality audio reproduction' and began my lifelong journey in this hobby. Similar classes, either in person or online, are one method more people could have access to quality audio reproduction. You stated: "To this end I am looking for a more direct road to audio Nirvana--not for myself but for others. I would like to make sure more people find easier entry into audiophile land. This is why I'd very much like all of you passionate audio nuts to help me define things a bit better. Lets figure out how to put some metrics to our subjective experiences. Lets see what synergies excite and concentrate certain qualities we love." I'm generally willing to assist your efforts but I'm a bit fuzzy on the scope and specifics of what you're proposing. Figuring out how to put some metrics to our subjective experiences sounds like part of a mission statement for a dedicated commission that I'm not sure a retired 60 yr old guy such as myself would be highly motivated or incentivized to join, given his numerous other opportunities to continue doing whatever the heck he felt like doing whenever the heck he felt like doing it. Tim |
