onkyo RZ...anybody?

I have been using an RZ-5100 pre/pro for over a year now, and I've been very satisfied with it's performance, overall. The hdmi bugs of past products are gone, and the features are very solid. I can not speak to the amps in the receivers, though, as I run separates.

The truth is that the new Onkyo surround receivers use cheaper materials these days like most brands in surround loudspeakers.

When you compare the weight of it to surround receivers in the past you see how much lighter they became these days.

We do business with a company who does repair of many famoud audio brands yoiu all know. He also does many brands in surround receivers. He sees and says that; the materials they use getitng cheaper each single year.

Many peole have the idea that it would be better when we go on in time. But....the truth shows different realities. At the end they count and they tell the real truth.

We tested the RZ products for Onkyo as well. We decided not to sell them based on the fact that we found the quality by far not acceptable. We saw to many other brands as well. We even did not find them acceptable too.

We do professional calibration of screens with the most expensive Calman software in their range. And we use professional tools to measure it. 

In 2017 we did a LG Oled with a new Yamaha surround receiver. We were amzed by the fact that the image and results where inferior to all our other clients with the same LG Oled.

Your story does not underpin our experience. What I said earlier, all brands use cheaper parts. It is common in the time we live.

All the brands you name are almost all repared by a company I do business with. And the owner said to me that all these brands are using cheaper parts each single year. This is the truth and that counts.

Sorry if my story does not "underpin" your experience.  Sorry, but your statement don't really make any sense either.

Audio is shootout. And the results speak the truth. We are talking about facts, this has nothing to do with personal preferences.

as a warning to others, one just has to start reading bo1972 other posts to see what kind of person he is.

How much of the weight savings can be attributed to moving towards switch mode power supplies and class D amps?  In those cases lighter doesn’t mean lower quality, you just don’t need a heavy toroidal power supply and massive heat sinks to cool inefficient class AB amps anymore.  

I suppose some of the weight could come from the internal construction, faceplate, etc, and it’s possible that companies are cheapening things there.  Onkyo makes their Integra line which is supposedly built to a higher standard, but I haven’t compared them side by side to see if there’s an actual difference or if it’s just marketing.  

Song makes a lot of claims about the build quality of their ES line receivers, and they do offer a longer warranty than most others in the industry so they at least stand behind it.  The big question mark for them IMO is the quality of their DCAC EX room correction system, I’ve read some hit and miss reports about it.  

Onkyo’s proprietary AutoEQ was a big step down from Audyssey when it first came out, but from what I’ve been hearing it’s improved considerably since then.  

Dirac is still the gold standard (aside from Trinnov which you only get on ultra-expensive gear) and that’s a big plus in NAD’s column.  You also have the new Lexicon AVRs (as well as the Arcam units they’re based on) that offer Dirac and high quality amps, and with the Lexicon you get Logic7 which is still the best surround up mixer I’ve heard.  

Emotiva has has a new receiver that should be landing late this year or early next that will use the very high end Pascal class D amps boards, have Dirac room correction, 11 channels of amplification, and will no doubt be built like a tank like all of their gear.  It should have an attractive price for the specs as well.  

The big bugaboo right right now is HDMI 2.1 looming on the horizon.  Denon/Marantz have said that the Denon Avr8500h and the new flagship Marantz professor will have upgrade boards available to give them HDMI 2.1 later on, and Emotiva has said they’re going to offer them for most of their receivers and processors, but no firm time table on any of it.  

Sound is based on properties. The pre amp what can reval the most details and layers of a recording is the winner.

Almost all products in audio are 2D on facts. This means that shootouts with a system what can reveal and create a stunning 3D stage based on the other parts of a system. But when the stage DNA of a pre amp proofs to go back to a 2D stage., it is clear that it lacks a 3D stage.

We humans can observe sound in a 3D spectrum. But the facts proof that almost all products are 2D. This proofs how insane audio is regarding to the fact that it differs so much from a 3D realistic stage.

When the RZ products came out we were asked by Onkyo to test them. And we concluded that the stage has gone form 3D to 2D. We can proof this on facts by sound. The facts also proof  that they use cheaper parts inside than in the past.

Audio is all about the properties is owns. We can proof on facts which properties are there and which are missing. By sound we can proof this over and over again. And everyone will be able to understand this.

You should get the following AV receivers if you want to focus on sound quality : 
* Arcam AVR 850 ($6k) & AVR 850 ($3k or $3500). 
* Rotel RAP-1580 ($3800). very heavy 51 lbs. 
*NAD T777 v3 or T787. Somewhere between $3k to $4k. The T787 is also very heavy around 50++ lbs. 
* Cambridge Audio CXR200 ($2k). 
These receivers are not loaded with features and bells & whistles like those Japanese mass produced AV receivers eg: Onkyo/Integra, Denon, Marantz, Pioneer, Yamaha, Sony.
Rather the Arcam, Rotel, NAD & Cambridge focus more on sound quality especially for stereo music performances or playbacks. They also use better quality parts and design circuit topologies than those Japanese mass produced AV receivers. 

However, the new Marantz SR8012 av receiver, which is the flagship Marantz receiver, will probably perform and sound good too and will be the number one choice compared to other Japanese mass produced AV receivers. The Marantz SR8012 currently retails for $3k brand new.