Thanks for your suggestion, Chayro. It well might be the case that the best thing is to try them at a dealers with different amps.
The problem seems to be independent of volume. I also know different folks like different speakers and I'm open to the sad possibility I simply purchased the wrong speakers for my ears. But, as you say, the best way to eliminate that possibility is to head to a dealer. I am wondering though, whether others have experienced the same problem and have solved it with a different amp. My old speakers AR91, were much more forgiving with the treble than these Paradigms. |
Kal, interesting suggestion. I did turn down the treble manually - do you know whether the Audyssey EQ separates out frequencies more finely than the manual controls, which are simple treble and bass? |
Kal, Thanks, I did just try the Audyssey and it did at least partially tame the problem - but still not quite enough :( |
Thank you all for your responses. I think the best thing to do will be to visit a dealer, with speakers in hand, and see if I can't find appropriate amplification for them that sounds good to me and is semi-affordabel. If not, then I'll sell them to somebody who has ears matched to these speakers.
I know that a lot of people like these speakers and so I bought them over the net without listening to them - probably a typical newbie mistake which I fully confess!
Meanwhile, I totally appreciate your generous tips and will be trying them out - keep them coming!
Thanks,
Bob A. |
Wilsnet,
I now kind of get your comment that 'it's possible to get "detailed", "transparent" and "smooth and relaxed" all at the same time, but you pay more dearly for that.'
So this new hobby just might flatten my wallet pretty good - I'm so glad I started with inexpensive speakers! :)
Cheers,
Bob |
Thanks Ryder - I'll check out better amplification as an option. As it may not be affordable for me, I'll also explore a bit more trying to sell these so I can find a combo affordable to me.
Meanwhile, I understand now that the room, the amplifier, and the wiring can all play critically into how a speaker sounds. I had read that the speaker is pretty much 90% of the sound and considered anything beyond that as prissiness, but am seeing with my own ears that things are a lot more complicated than that!
I came to the right forum and appreciate everyone's advice! |
Thank you for all of your generous responses. After learning so much from all of you, and doing a lot of research on the net, I've decided to head back to the drawing board and try and find an old pair of AR91 in good condition, which I mentioned above that I owned in another lifetime and liked so much. As I've learned on the web, and most of you probably know, a good silk dome, while it loses some detail and accuracy, is much more forgiving of poor electronics and poor source material than the much more precise metal domes found in the Studio 60. So, with luck, I should be able to find in these lovable antiques an affordable solution which will be quite okay with my present equipment and source material, and will move the Studio 60's to the auction section here at audiogon and let the financial cards fall where they may.
I also couldn't help but look at conflicting views on woofer designs on the web a little bit. I probably shouldn't touch on such a religious subject as to whether vented bass designs are better than acoustic suspension designs. But I did notice that most of the internet discussions on this topic compare speakers of the exact same size in acoustic vs vented cabinets to conclude that acoustic suspension designs are inherently less efficient. The AR91 had a 12 inch woofer in an acoustic suspension, not necessarily less efficient than the Studio 60 two 5 1/2 inch woofers in a vented design, just more expensive to manufacture! You can see where I'm headed. But, even then, I do have to admit the bass sounds pretty good in the Studio 60, even with my low grade amp.
Once again, thanks again to you all for the advice and info, you helped me set me on an affordable audio path.
Regards,
Bob |
Hi Knik,
Thank you for your one last appeal - it has changed my plan a little bit:
By trying the speakers in different rooms, I've convinced myself that the problem truly does not depend on room and is therefore probably due to some other factor. And, from your comments, as well as those of Kotta, Kbarkamian, Wizard454, Wilsnet, Sprink, and Sthomas12321 the amp is the most likely culprit.
So, having already located some inexpensive AR91s on the net and ordered them, I'll first try those old geezers to see if they'll work for me. If they don't, I'll beg or borrow enough $$ to try in my home, and then purchase, either the Exposure2010S that you recommended, a vintage Sansui that Kotta recommended, the Peachtree Decco 2 that Wilsnet recommended, or the B&K that Sprink and Sthomas12321 recommended as appropriate for the Studio 60s. I feel confident that this approach will work.
Meanwhile, instead of immediately selling off the Studio 60s, I'll pull them off the classifieds for the time being, so I'll have them to try if the AR91s don't work out. And, if the AR91s do turn out to work for me, I can just sell the Studio 60s later at a loss.
I do love experiments and, so far, I'm actually enjoying this audio adventure and learning from all of you. What a great forum! I'll report back here later to let you know how this all plays out.
~Bobagov |
The AR91 arrived yesterday and I thought you all would be amused by what I found. I expected, of course that the silk dome tweeters would provide gentler though somewhat less detailed highs than the Studio 60. To my astonishment, the highs seem almost EXACTLY the same in both speakers - in fact the AR91 sound more like the Studio 60 than some other Paradigm models I listened to when visiting a dealer a couple of days ago! It's uncanny that these speakers, separated by 35 years of technology, sound so similar.
The Studio 60 seem to have mellowed a tad in the past couple of weeks - or maybe my ears have broken in, but they, and the AR91, still sound more bright than I would personally like. So I still have a lot of suggestions to follow up on!
I wasn't sure which speakers to sell - I certainly can't keep both. Being an old acoustic suspension system, the AR91 have the advantage of backing right up to the wall without a large effect on sound, an advantage in my small living room, but the Studio 60 would undoubtedly be more reliable being newer and with metal rather than cardboard and foam speaker drivers. The 60's also seem to carry a lot more detail in the sound.
In the end, though, I'll probably keep the AR91, not only because the tattered grills and the burns on the walnut veneer nicely match my bachelor decor, but also because I can get probably get enough $$ by selling the Studio 60 to actually try out some of your great suggestions. I do look forward to playing some more with 'real' audio and am grateful to all of you. The funniest suggestion was that I should just head to Best Buy - but think of the adventure I would have missed!
Thanks,
Bob |
