... POORLY RECORDED SONGS THAT ...

I hate to beat a dead horse here, but most CDs in the last few years are engineered with DR range compression that makes them hard to listen to and impossible to correct. No system can significantly enhance what doesn't exist in the recording.

Both of Alabama Shakes albums come to mind. Great stuff. Great writing. Great performing. Bad engineering. And there is no excuse for it.

@sgordon1 , the narrow DR stuff does sound okay in the car and probably for the reasons you mention.

Its the stuff, like Alabama Shakes' Sound and Color, that would lend itself to hi-fi listening but is poorly engineered that drives me crazy. I don't really want to listen to that in the car or at home.

Thank you. Will be interesting to see what your take is on them (or any severely compressed DR stuff). 

Yes, michaelgreenaudio, I too would like to know how any system can compensate for elements in a bad recording. I hear this fairly often but it doesn't make sense to me. I don't doubt that there are things that can be done to help some. But especially in the case of compressed DR I don't see how any system can make a big difference there.

As I mentioned in another thread I can see how an equalizer might be able to take advantage of the fact that different frequencies will have different perceived volumes at the same system volume setting. (I'd like to try my hand at this sometime.) But even that can't make a huge difference when dynamic range is compressed as much as in many new recordings.

Two examples:

Newish band called The Struts. Album is Young and Dangerous. Not ’audiophile’ type music. Very pop. The Dynamic Range database, for what its worth, gives its average DR as 5. Minimum track DR is 4. Max track DR is 6.

Alabama Shakes. Sound & Color. Should be appealing to audiophiles (in terms of content). Max DR is on one track and is 9. Album average is 5. Lowest track DR is 3.

(For what its worth, these numbers are from the site referenced above. I do not know what the units of DR are, I make no claim to the reliability of the data, the owner of the site is very much in the fight against DR compression, and he sells an app to measure it. So he’s in it for the money too.)

The bottom line is that even as a new audiophile the effect of such compression is immediately apparent to my untrained ears to the point I can roughly guess the level of compression. Likewise on CDs with DR in the 12-16 range it is clearly and pleasantly apparent.

I can easily understand how you can work with a piece with a broad DR to ’tune’ how it sounds. I just can’t see how I can do anything to ’tune’ what is simply not there and was, in fact, intentionally engineered out. I can see how it can be made better....but hard to imagine how it can be made ’good’ for what that’s worth.

Thanks for your patience.

michael, I still don't understand. Sorry, I might be being dense here.

But if you take a recording with a compressed dynamic range how can you expand the range beyond what exists on the recording? If it isn't there then it isn't there. To take an extreme example: there have been newer recordings in which the compressed DR has lead to clipping. How can you get back what has been clipped, i.e. not there?

Unless you're into glam/pop you might want to skip Young and Dangerous. ;-)

So would you say that with the right system tuning the quality of the recording, in terms of DR compression and loudness, is of no real consequence?

My name is George. I am into glam/pop. And I'm not embarrassed to admit it. The Sweet. David Bowie. T Rex. Queen......and now The Struts.

@geoffkait  will look into Roxy Music. Haven't thought about them in years.

That’s interesting Michael. I have to say, soundstage is not my main criteria for SQ so I can’t say much there.

I do not have a subwoofer.

My system is fairly high end circa 1990. No EQ. My immediate impression of the album is volume. Way out of proportion to CDs with broad DR. The next immediate impression is harshness and loss of expected subtlety on some tracks. My reaction to that loss of subtlety and some separation is to turn up the volume a little. That does not help and in some cases makes it worse.

I found the CD so unpleasant the first time I played it that I have not played it more than a few times from the CD player. I have played it from a rip of the CD through iTunes with EQ adjustments that make it more palatable.

I’ll listen to the CD again later today and listen for soundstage and pay more attention to clarity (particularly of bass which is one of my main criteria) and separation.

My thoughts, however, are that I have a system that seems to be well selected for the playback of a wide range and variety of CDs without significant DR compression and it does so, in my limited experience, superbly. I would have a hard time saying that such a system is flawed because it will not reproduce high SQ from media intentionally recorded without DR.

I understand your point that there is more to a recording than most systems can (or do) get from it. But if a recording has a dynamic range of 5 then a recording with a (log) dynamic range of 12 is certainly going to have a lot more available to exploit (it seems to me).

michael, thank you very much for looking into this. You must have a wonderful system.

Reviewers have complained about this album and it has similar DR to the Metallica album that first set off the contemporary loudness wars. Three measurements (two CDs and downloadable file) confirm exactly the same numbers so it is fairly clear that the DR is not there from a technical standpoint. Which could call into question the validity of the measurement software. Interestingly the vinyl has much better DR.

I guess if things continue down this road and I feel compelled to modify my system to accommodate bad recordings I will be in need of your expertise. Thanks again. You have been helpful and patient.

Edited to add:

Agree. It is an interesting album. Still impressed with the musicianship. A pretty daring turn for the band as well.

After relistening I am actually impressed with the soundstage. Quite broad and deep. Unfortunately even at about 1/3 volume I'm actually hearing some distortion of the bass, if not clipping. Not sure. And for the record, my system renders most bass very accurately and pleasingly to me.....even under torture tests like Saint-Saenz's organ symphony.