First thing I did right out of the box was to compare them to pics. Yep, they appear the real deal.
Maybe they just need some time on them, but I did read another post in the Asylum where a guy said they were bright in his system.
I also received an email earlier today from another guy who said " have used a couple of different pair of round plates in my Syrah. Both noisy, lousy bass, I don't know what the hoopla is about. I now use Hytrons. Pretty good."
So like always, so much is system and listener dependent.
I will eventually give them some more burn-in time, but I am really enjoying the EH 6SN7's. |
Hullo from Scotland !
Got a nos Mazda/ mullard from Holland ? my other GZ34 MUST BE DUFF because after 2 days this is a huge improvment.
Screechy, nasty to start with but just gets better & better in every respect than the Sovtek - not by a huge amount & not to slag the Sovtek - really shines at the frequency extremes though in comparison.
Wan't to try the Bendix but the shipping is more than the tube.
Fool that I am, I have missed the obvious - there are some very nice NOS tubes available in the UK for buttons as opposed to the rather silly prices on Gon & Ebay.
Suggest Supratekies from the same neighbourhoods get together - NOS Mullard GZ34s are readily available for around $44 which seems ? reasonable.
Quite happy to send gifts to the states and stop people screwing everyone.
Set of brown/red base CBS/RCAs coming (6sn7s)so I should never need another set of these - I hope so,I've spent more on valves than I did on the amp.
Still it's fun & way the nicest most rewarding bit of kit I've ever owned - I listen, I look and I think that should have cost way more than it did !!
Now that I have spent days tweaking all the tables - the phono stage is - enlightening ? never had to spend six hours tweaking the azimuth but the that was because I could never hear the results properly.
Mick for PM of Oz says me!
The wife says they're lovely but couldn't the c--t make them a bit friggin smaller, Aussie Git !
3 weeks down the line she listened to 2 & half songs then started on"What does that bit do? - is it absolutley necessary - blah, blah" Last time I ever ask her opinion - thank the lord she will never tell the differnce when a Cortese or Cabernet appears !!!!!!! |
Fiddler,
Are you sure you have round plates and not just tung sol 6sn7's? My tung sol round plates sound fantastic from top to bottom. Smooth in the top end, great midrange and solid, deep bass. Mine sounded this way from the day I got them. BWhite once posted pictures of the Tung Sol round plates on this thread, but I doubt if I could find it. I will try. If I do, I will let you know where to find them. Guess I need to get a pair of the EH6sn7's to see how they stack up. |
I think I screwed up!
I just got a pair of NOS Tung Sol Round Plates in today and I don't like them at all. They are rather lean in the mid-range and somewhat bright in the high frequencies.
I am hoping these symptoms disappear after the tubes have some time on them. But to be honest, after about two hours, I couldn't take it any longer and I put the EH 6SN7's back in. Viola, I had the music back.
I would appreciate hearing your experience with the Round Plates.
Thanks in advance. |
|
Hey! What happened to Sounds_Real_Audio posts and the replies???? |
Larryrosen,
I ordered my Cortese about the same time as Slowhand. |
Larryrosen,
I ordered my Cortese in late October of last year. I have 2 preamps in front of me, them Mick does mine. |
Hi Sandro. You have another 200 to 300 hours of run in time before the supratek really finds it's stride. You must try the premium 7308's you are using in the ARC for the phono stage in supratek. It's an interesting comparison though with the ARC,I have a modded out ARC sp-10 mk2 that I still very much adore and will never sell it.It was my first true reference preamp that just simply trounced everything else back in the day. A wonderful voice to be sure, however my cortese betters it in every parameter and the line stage isn't really even close. The mod by Great Northern Sound certainly raised the bar for the ARC stuff,particularly in the bass response department[the achilles heel of the SP-10],but by contrast... the resolution and decay in the bottom end of the supratek is at a whole higher level. I have yet to hear any other tubed preamp compare in this area and still shake my head every day. |
Interesting. When did you order your preamp? I placed an order for a Cabernet in January, but have asked for some "mods". I exchanged e-mails with Mick late last week, but still no mention of a delivery time frame. Can you let me know when you ordered so I have a reference? Thanks. |
Hi Slowhand,Hi All,
yes, you're right, I 'm too busy to listening . I have to tell you that I still cannot say that I like it more than the "old " ARC LS5 mk2 GNSC ref. mod, Siemens 7308s outfitted with. Both are great, the Cortese doesn't "kill" my ARC at all.Consider that I liked my ls 5 more than a REF 2 mk2 and that the Cortese is 200 hours old.
I need a bit longer time ,my impression now is that my ls5 is a bit more on the romantic side than the Cortese, where this one has a little better dynamic. Soundstaging is large and deep with both units,there is a lot of air between performers.Music flows with easy,I often find myself listening to the music rather than to the pre's differences. What I mean is that these two pre's anyway are showing the features peculiar to what a great pre must have. No trouble at all in bass, mids and highs, only little different tastes.
The phono section is awesome to my ears, but I have few hours(10/15)on it .My early pre phono was an ARC sp11 mk2 with nos Amperex 6922s. The only tube rolling I'm going to get is just the two 6922s, infact I have two Siemens 7308s to try.
The long waiting is well worth, this is one of the best pre you can get, not only for the moneys. It also looks a lot better than on the pics and is dead silent.
Let us know when you'll get yours.
Sorry for my limited English.
Sandro |
Slowhand, I believe that one of the two preamps Mick is doing now is mine. I can barely stand the wait. I started this process many months ago. Hope it is worth it. |
Slowhand ,Sounds like your waits almost over!I put all the stock tubes back in my Chardonnay last night,they sound very good,but i still prefer my NOS tubes,but if i had to live with the stock tubes i would still be very happy! |
Sandro,
What are your first impressions of your new Cortese? have not heard from you. Guess you are too busy listening to post. Mick said he has 2 preamps to do and then he will build mine. Yahoo! |
Great post Slowhand! You are into something here. Although the Mullards are great in my Chenin (Metal GZ34), you have to remember that when Mick listened to the preamp, especially the phono, the parameters were adjusted with the conventional tubes in service.
For example, the right resistance to properly biased the JFET's etc. If you open the preamp, you will see that there are rheostat's (blue) on some junctions that their primary fuction was to "tweaked" or "optimized" a certain parameter(s) (i.e. voltage or current)to voiced out the preamp ....exactly what I meant when I posted this a few days ago |
Fiddler,
Please let us know how the EH6sn7's stack up against the Tung Sol when you get them. I will be very interested. |
That's right Ray. As you would say "Hee Hee". |
|
I mentioned Mick's thoughts, albeit in less detail, in another thread about 2 weeks ago. Maybe your posting will get more attention and stop all of this unnecessary experimentation. |
Mick asked me to pass on a message to everyone. I was talking with him about the EH6sn7's which he is putting in all the new 6sn7 based preamps. Long story short, he says he is building and voicing the preamps to the tubes that he is putting in them. He is not fond of the NOS tubes that most of us use, and he does not recommend many of the non-standard tubes that are being used in the Suprateks. He said he is considering making the warranty void if damage is done to a preamp from using non-standard tubes. Mick wanted me to pass on to everyone that his feeling about NOS tubes is that they do not sound better, only different than the tubes that he ships the Suprateks with. He feels that the only people that are really benefiting from NOS tubes are the people that are charging outrageous prices for them. If the NOS tubes are not perfectly matched, he feels we are degrading the sound of the preamps. Mick really likes the EH6sn7 tubes and feels they are every bit as good as NOS tubes at a much more reasonable price.
Mick asked me to pass this on to everyone, so I am following his wishes. I also asked him if he had tried the Welbourne labs attenuaters and he said he has recieved them, but has not put them in a unit yet as they are very large and he has not yet figured a way to fit them in the Cortese. |
Thanks Fiddler,
I live about 15 miles away from Kevin (Upscale Audio). As much as I want to avoid it (I can't help myself buying more than I intend to)I guess it is time to visit the castle of Mr. Deal.
Ola Kevin! Here I come...... |
Fiddler,
The last time I spoke with Mick he highly recommended the EH6sn7's. He said the has hundreds of pairs of NOS tubes, and he like the EH6sn7's better. I was going to order a pair. Guess I better do it. |
fiddler:
my chardonnay shipped with eh 6sn7. from what i recall, the sound was really good. my cary monos are also using 2 eh 6sn7's. i am currently running some black glass ken rads in the chardonnay. your post reminded me that i haven't actually done any critical listening between the two. |
Amandarae, They are the regular black base. I know they make a gold "pin" version, but I have heard that the gold pins are actually the "standard version" with the pins just painted gold. After inserting the pins into a tube socket once, the gold is supposedly scraped off. I purchased the tubes from Upscale Audio. I paid for the "Private Reserve" (which might be complete BS), but they are very quiet at the moment. Only $10 more per tube for the "Private Reserve", so why not? http://www.upscaleaudio.com/product.asp?itemid=53&catid=46Let me know your impressions. I will be very curious. I am stunned at how good this pair sounds in my Supratek. Assuming they hold up, as I said before, I have purchased my last pair of NOS 6SN7's. (Well, I haven't heard the Tung Sols yet.) |
Fiddler,
Thanks for the report. Is it the Gold or the regular black base EH-6SN7?
I am in your camp also. After trying Sylvania 6F6G's, GEC KT-66, Gold Lion KT-66, RCA 6L6GC Black Plates, and Tungsol 5881, to my ears the Sovtek KT-66 is the better tube. I tried it after reading a post here that Mick recommended it to an owner. The tubes takes a while to settle (50 to 100 hours maybe) but when it does, they are beautiful regulators on my Chenin.
I will order the EH as soon as I see your response.
Thanks again! |
You guys may think I'm nuts, but I just recently purchased a low-noise pair of EH 6SN7's to try on a lark. One of my '52 Syl "Bad Boys" that I had in place was spitting (it cleared up fortunately).
I have another pair of '52 Syls and two pair of Ken Rads, plus a pair of Tung Sol Round Plates on the way, but I was just curious about the EH 6SN7's.
Well, after about 30 hours of burn-in, I swear, I think they are better than the '52 Syls or the Ken Rads (at least in my system). Excellent, tight bass, liquid mid-range and extened, grain-free highs and very detailed.
I was expecting them to have sub-par bass and to be somewhat etched with grainy highs. Wrong on all counts.
I remember a long time ago, soon after I got my Supratek, I posted an opinion that the rectifier and the regulators have a much greater affect on the sound than the 6SN7's. I am still convinced of that.
I think the EH's are better than the '52 Syls or the Ken Rads, but only slightly so. I have to listen really critically to determine a difference. Time will tell about the Tung Sols, but I know I won't be buying anymore NOS 6SN7's for my Supratek any time soon.
You guys can all jump in and tell me I am crazy now, but that's the way I hear it. |
Hello Simon74,
The Bendix 6106 in indirectly heated. |
Hi all,
thanks Slowhand for the pointer re the Bendix.
What I'm confused about is the 6106/5Y3WGT directly heated, like the Tungsol or is it indirectly heated ala the Mazda ?
Sorry for being thick but I'm new to tubes and really don't want to go pulling them in & out all the time.
I'm amazed that the rectifier makes such a difference - any other pres I've had were untroubled as long as the rectifier was functional but the line stage tubes made readily obvious differences to the sound.
Thanks Simon |
I tried a GZ37 in my Syrah and did not like it at all. I experienced the same thing Fiddler did. My favorite rectfiers are Bendix 6106, Metal base GZ34, and Tung Sol 5Y3 (I know it will shorten the life of the other tubes). When I use it, I take David's advice and put in a GZ34 to warm up the pre and then turn it off, switch to the 5Y3 and turn it right back on so that the other tubes are already warmed up. I only do this on weekends when I will leave the pre on all weekend. There is something magical about the sound of that Tung Sol 5Y3. I will try the Mazda 5Y3 soon. |
Just bought another Mullard gz34 instead.
I truly hope it is better than the one I have at the moment,
which must be a dud as it makes the Syrah sound terrible.
I suffered it for a few days thinking it must come better but could not bear it and put the Sovtek 5ar4 back in.
I will keep an eye out for a bendix.
Thanks again.
Simon You are into something here. Although the Mullards are great in my Chenin (Metal GZ34), you have to remember that when Mick listened to the preamp, especially the phono, the parameters were adjusted with the conventional tubes in service. For example, the right resistance to properly biased the JFET's etc. If you open the preamp, you will see that there are rheostat's (blue) on some junctions that their primary fuction was to "tweaked" or "optimized" a certain parameter(s) (i.e. voltage or current)to voiced out the preamp. ...just a thought... |
Philips never made a GZ37. What you have is a rebranded Mullard.
For the record, my 6106 never matured to something I appreciated. I have recommitted to my double D getter metal base GZ34.
6SN7s really aren't anymore prone to microphony then other tubes. It's really the fault of the Supratek implementation. I have never heard a line stage so sensitive to tube noise then the Supratek. When shopping for Supratek 6SN7s, request "phono grade" tubes if your dealer can test for microphony. |
The GZ33 and GZ37 are notably fuller sounding than the GZ34 or 6106. I did not find either rectifier to be muddy or lacking in dynamics or clarity while they were in my cabernet. Of all the rectifiers in my system the metal-base GZ34 was best when judged by the articulation of the notes and preservation of detail and harmonics. I didn't give any consideration to freq response or tonal balance in making my personal selection. All of the rectifiers sounded good or acceptable in my system but the metal-base GZ34 was a standout. |
The Bendix tubes I mentioned that are available in my previous post are now gone.
Thanks |
Cheers guys,
Ecclectique - sorry it's a maullard made philips - link to ad for your info
http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?accstube&1125609987
Just bought another Mullard gz34 instead.
I truly hope it is better than the one I have at the moment,
which must be a dud as it makes the Syrah sound terrible.
I suffered it for a few days thinking it must come better but could not bear it and put the Sovtek 5ar4 back in.
I will keep an eye out for a bendix.
Thanks again.
Simon |
Hi Gang. Simon, Yes, the Bendex 6106 takes about twice the time of any other indirect rectifiers to power up. It also requires a way more run in time than any of the others to sound it's best. Regarding the Gz37, I completely agree with Fiddler here 100%. It's just not the rectifier for the Supratek and he has described it's sound in the supratek to a T. Mind you... Your reference to a Phillips Mini-watt gz37, which I have never tried and wasn't even aware that Phillips made one. My experience was with the nos Gz-37 made by Mullard and I am not much of a fan. In my rig, the bendex is the winner in both the syrah and the cortese with the metal base gz34 a very close second. |
Simon,
I tried the GZ37. It was even mushier and muddier than the Mullard GZ34/5AR4. It was a total waste money, IMHO. The overall dynamics were very weak compared to the 6106.
In my system, the 6106 adds much cleaner and more immediate dynamics with a much more palpable 3D presentation than either the GZ34 or the GZ37. No comparison in the soundstage. YMMV |
Sorry, last post should have specified GZ37 rectifier!
Si |
sure I've seen this before but will the syrah cope with the slight increse in current required for a Philips miniwatt GZ37 rectifier ??
It's way too expensive not give the promised results.
Thanks in advance
Si |
Ecclectique, you're welcome. When you say energize, do you mean break-in or warm-up? I've got a 6106 but haven't tried it yet. I know these are very rugged. Does the filament/cathode take a while to warm up? I've read the threads that state the 6106 takes a good while to break in. The 5Y3GB filament/cathode warms up as quickly as any other indirectly heated rectifier that I've used. Too early to tell if a couple hundred hours will make a difference in the sound. |
Sburke. Thanks for the imfo in the your last post. It sounds very much like a bendex 6106 whereby it takes a long time to energize. |
Slowhand,
I really can't say. I have little experience with 5Y3's. I primarily use or have used GZ34's, EZ81's, 5U4's, and 5R4's. This is an interesting tube, though it's too early to say whether I'll keep it in circuit or go back to the GZ34. My feeling is that this tube would sound best in a system that is on the warm side or lacking a bit in the HF area.
I think it's important to note that like any other tube rolling, the sound one hears with a tube change is so dependent on the circuit, components, room, ears, etc. that in my opinion, it's pretty darn subjective. The sounds and levels in the music that I hear may be completely different from what someone else is hearing, even in the same set up.
Steve |
Hi Steve,
Thanks for the post. I was the guy who said he liked the sound of the 5Y3 rectifier. This sounds like an interesting alternative. Do you feel that this tube sounds pretty much like other 5Y3's? |
While we're back on tube rolling in the Supratek pre's, I thought I'd offer a suggestion that I haven't seen yet. I believe it was the "Supretek Tubes for Everyone" post where someone talked about how much they liked the sound using a 5y3. Later, in that post and here, it was correctly mentioned that this tube should not be used since it is directly heated. There is an alternative. The Mazda 5Y3GB. Characteristics wise, this is a 5Y3. Where it differs is that it is indirectly heated. This rectifier has an ST shaped bulb and has a pretty cool filament glow to it. I've been using one in my Syrah for several weeks now with no ill effects. It's currently replacing a NOS metal based Philips GZ34 and drops the voltage to the regulators by approximately 20vdc over the GZ34. The tube is not yet fully broken in. As such, I would characterize the main difference in sound to be that the circuit does not roll off the HF as much with the 5Y3GB as with the GZ34. This is in both the line and phono stages. If you have bright system, this tube may not be for you. I had to back off the mid frequency L-pads on my Altec Model 19's due to them being overly bright after this swap. The 5Y3GB is relatively inexpensive and can be had at several different online sites. A search will quickly show these vendors.
Do this at your own risk, YMMV, and all the other usual disclaimers.
Steve |
Ecclectique,
Thanks for the very "educational" explanation on why the chugging sound on the 6106 and not on the 5AR4. As a habit, I researched all the things you said and they are spot on frrom what you said as far as the difference between the two tubes are concern. For me, I will keep the 5AR4!
Anybody looking for a NOS (not even a minute used!) 6106 and a used pair as well? :) |
Hi Guys,
great posts.
Loving my Syrah.
Just bought another pair of Sylvania 6GK5s & a pair of Western Electric 5842s for the phono section.
The 6GK5s are duplicates of whats in place. The Western Electrics seem to hang an image centrally a bit better than
the Raytheons it came with. Tried some Creatura tube dampers on the 5842s - they have worked well for me in the past but I worry the valves are so small, the dampers may be
making them run too hot?
Not tried the NOS MullardGZ34 yet as the guy I bought it from said the 5AR4 was better - maybe the Mullard is below par?
As a matter of habit I have sat both pre & psu on Final Labs Dharumas so that both units 'float'. I can feel no vibration getting to the units even in my small listening room.
The new pairs of valves were bought as one or more of the valves in the phono section was a bit noisy - nothing too troublesome - the new ones have the same problem - ah well I knew I would have to buy at least 3 different pairs to get a quiet set !
Love the amp & can't wait to try some different power cords - using a PS Statement at the moment but will probably end up using a Shunyata of some description to keep
synergy with the rest of the system.
Tried the gain setting at 3 which gives solidity to the sound but bloats the bass a bit over setting 2 (Pass Labs X-250). Will just keep experimanting but any pointers welcome
Tung sol 5881 red/brown base mil spec
Sylvania black base 6SN7s
and the aforementioned in the phono/rectifier sections.
Happy listening,
Si |
The last several posts have been most valuable to me. Thanks to all of you! |
Hi Gang: Yes indeed, quiet 6sn7's are hard to find and all of that family of tubes tend to be somewhat prone to microphonics. Herbies tube dampeners are a blessing here as well as isolation. The Metal base GZ-34/5ar4 is without doubt the finest sounding of that family of rectifiers. When using substitute rectifiers like the 5v4,gz33,5z4,gz37,6106 etc,it is imperative that they test above 95% and both sides measure the same. The chugging sound some are experiencing here when playing vinyl is due to the excessive voltage drop of the rectifier type used. Insert a weak rectifier of any type and you may experience this artifact regardless of type, however the gz34/5ar4 will not exhibit this trait until it's much weaker than the others.Furthermore, ones choice of regulation tubes will not have any impact on this artifact. While a weaker rectifier may work in many other applications... they will be of marginal success in any of the supratek's that employ a phono stage. I have a nos Valvo gz-34 [test's just below 90%]that I use in a pair of vintage siemens klangfilm amps and they ehibit this trait in both the cortese and the syrah when using the phono stage. I also experience the same thing with a nos 5v4 and a Bendex 6106 and they both test above 90%. " Important Note"... all of the rectifiers that are employed in the supratek's are of the "indirectly heated" full wave variety, the 5y3gt mentioned else where is a "directly heated" rectifier type and not recommended. The use of directly heated rectifier types in the suprateks will eventually strip the cathodes of your other tubes. Not a good thing for those employing rare and expensive nos tubes. A directly heated rectifier will cause premature tube life with the other tubes as the getter of the tubes is used up quickly releasing gas in the tube.When cold,the gas molecules are struck by high energy electrons from the cathode, being positive they are attracted to the negative grid. The gas molecules will shoot right past the grid and onto the cathode,and therefore eventually eroding the cathode surface and compromises the life of the tubes. The other tubes employed in the preamp should not have instantanious voltage applied until they are warm, this allows the tubes getter to absorb the gas molecules that have accumulated from that last use of the preamp. |
Hello All, The tube line up in my Chenin is as follows.....Power supply, a superb [well burnt in] 1954 Bendix 6106. Regulators, A very early mirror matched pair of Sylvania 6F6Gs, clear glass ,old style round logo and etched base,very handsome looking .These are one of two pairs of 6F6gs I have.The Bendix and 6f6gs are [outstanding] inexpensive up grades in over all performance of the Chenin.6SN7s,A good pair of Tungsol black glass round plates.For me ,vocals have to sound right.With the Tungsols in place,Ella,Nat Cole,Sarah Vaughn ect.ect.are truly superb.One recent L.P. purchase,Joan Baez,Diamonds and Rust.The recording is one of the top best I have,the vocals captured on this L.P.are truly uncanny.I had a pair of Sylvania tall glass metal base in place afew months ago along with a used Dutch made bugal boy metal base GZ-34.Listening to Rock,Pink Floyd, Yes, The Who ect,I never heard them like this on a two channel system.It was a heavy experience.On Jazz and Folk,it was not as involving as my current choice of tubes .The phono stage,I use a mirror matched pair of 1949 R.C.A. black plate 6C4s and a pair of Philips Miniwatt S.Q. gold pins,the test values on these Miniwatts are outstanding.I did more switching of power supply tubes then any others in my Chenin.For me ,the Bendix is the one.One final note , my pre. is quiet as a church mouse...Love it. |
Hello Patrick,
Congrats on your Syrah! My recommendations for rectifiers and regulators are as follows:
Mullard Metal Base Gz34 - by far, the best in my set up. Followed closely by the regular black base variety. In my Chenin, the 6106 produces a "chugging" sound on the phono section, so I cannot use them. One good bargain is the Mullard "Dynaco" branded GZ34 you can find at Ebay often. Also, the IEC Brand but Holland made GZ34's are great.
The 6F6G's(I have Sylvania's) are good in mine as regulators. But I am currently using the Sovtek 6L6GC's that Mick recommends. Very cheap but very nice in my system. I bought it as a match pair (within 2%) for $50 plus shipping. I noticed a little "thinness" on the phono section with the 6F6G's but does not have it with the Sovtek. In my set up only of course.
As for the phono, your preamp and mine uses different type of tubes so I hope some Syrah owners can share their experiences with you. Oh, one more thing, I have the PSU and the Preamp on Audiopoints (the smaller version)and I really like the results. As if more clarity and definition (but does not upset the weight)had been added to the presentation. I think it has something to do with "channeling" the vibrations from tubes away from the platform. Maybe you will like it. Just aks Tom (TWL)about the points. He works for the manufacturer in which I am not affiliated to by any means.
Happy 4th!
Abe |
Thanks Slowhand. That's exactly what I need. Jazzdude, I don't have issues with microphonics. What I notice is that very quiet 6SN7's are difficult to find. There is a background noise that is circuit noise. I'm guessing that since the tubes are so close to each other that they may be picking up noise from each other. I was wondering if anyone has placed a temporary grounded shield around each tube to lower the noise floor. No need for me to try this if others already have. Again, it's not that noisy and I'm not disappointed. Can't blame me for wanting it to be totally silent. |
