"The defensiveness I have inadvertantly elicited speaks volumes about the insecurity of those so supposedly satisfied with their purchase..."
Well, let's see here, Khrys. You've come upon a thread which is undoubtedly one of the most amazing in the history of Audiogon due not only to its length, but the overwhelming consensus and joy over a relatively unknown product that has transformed so many systems, and you feel compelled to jump into the fray with no experience whatsoever with the product. Your "devil's advocate" position, as far as my feeble mind can discern it, breaks down as follows:
1)Anyone who buys the Supratek without auditioning it first is a sucker by definition because:
a)it isn't carried by dealers
b)it hasn't been reviewed in major audio journals
c)it hasn't been showcased at CES
d)it hasn't been widely advertised in commerical ads
2)Anyone who buys Supratek gear is incapable of an objective response to it because we have been suckered into buying it in the first place, and are now "stuck with it." Therefore, we have no choice but to like it in order to validate our irrational behavior and "lack of discernment."
3)Anyone who buys Supratek gear is a fool because something might happen to it, and then where would we be?
I think your ego has caused you to misinterpet our responses to your inane posts, Khrys. You see them all as just another attempt to validate our purchases as an overreaction to your superior critical thinking skills. In fact, we are simply pointing out the obvious to all potential Supratek customers--YOU have not heard the gear and we have. Your implication that the audiophiles who have bought and love Supratek gear are sheep--unable to form objective critical judgments about it--is beyond ridiculous. I would wager that there are few, if any, Supratek owners who have not bought other audio gear (whether based on word of mouth or your precious reviews and advertisements) that, once in their systems, did not quite suit them for one reason or another. I don't know if you've noticed, but audiophiles buy and sell equipment all the time--once in a great while, you will even see a Supratek unit for sale on this site--often because we buy things that are not quite what we had hoped. For the vast majority of us in this thread, the Supratek is that rarest of audio birds, gear that not only lives up to but exceeds expectations.
Make no mistake about it--we are not defending our purchase to you, to ourselves, or to anyone else. We are defending a company that has given us all so much joy, while reassuring potential Supratek customers that your arguments are utterly baseless. Each person can make up his/her own mind whether the consensus and testimonials of so many experienced audiophiles with nothing to gain from their endorsement are more or less persuasive than a magazine advertisement or a review in Stereophile....or your "devil's advocate" protestations.
One last thing---your apology would come across as slightly more "sincere" if you did not follow it with another insult. But thanks anyway.
Happy New Year to all.
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Devils Advocate? Interesting analogy and some food for thought here.How does one qualify as a "Devils Advocate"?? Perhaps... we can post an internet polling station here, and all of us "insecure members" can vote for you or whomever else aspires to assume this distinctive title "The Internet Devils Advocate" Yeah! Who knows... you could become really famous here on the Gon ... Maybe even become a "Legend in your own Mind". You would get my vote. |
Khrys, maybe some were offended maybe not. My guess is that many felt that your comments were a bit brisque in light of the fact you haven't listened to the product. I would only smile NOW at someone that would question the concensus of such a diverse group many with years of experience in this hobby. I was apprehensive myself but at the price and the raves felt it was well worth the risk. This product transcends word of mouth, it delivers on the hype. It is the only product I have purchased in my audio life that I would feel very comfortable recommending on a price/performance quotient. The value is just unbelievable and can't be fully realized by anyone reading this thread until experienced. I am not going to say it is the best product out there or that another product will not work better in a given system but I would ask, at what price? It is well worth taking a gamble on since the demand is higher than supply and some don't want to wait the 4-5 months it takes for delivery. You really can't lose on this one. |
My most sincere apologies are extended to any posters on this thread that I have offended. I certainly did not wish to disparage any satisfied owners of Supratek products but rather play "Devil's Advocate" for those not so lucky. The defensiveness I have inadvertantly elicited speaks volumes about the insecurity of those so supposedly satisfied with their purchase, wouldn't you say Asa? When the whole High - End becomes "internet-word-of mouth", "factory-direct", journalistcally unreviewed, "take-it-or-leave-it", unadvertised, non CES presented typography, why bother to listen? Unless of course you've already bought it. |
Congratulations Bob. Amazing huh.The best of it all is: Like a fine wine or all fine tube equipment for that matter, it can only get better with age, as the transformers,caps, resistors,wire etc, need a steady dose of frequency modulation [read music] to settle in!Really comes into its own at about 6 months. Enjoy |
Hi gang,
I have followed this thread from the beginning and now I am the proud owner of a used Chardonney. The Supratek replaced a BAT 30SE and the Supratek is at another level.I have also compared in my system a ARC LS 25Mkll which retails over $5000.00 and to my ears the Supratek blows it away. This is by far a great purchase at a great price. Before I even hooked it up to my system I could tell by the built quailty that the Supratek was going to be something special. I am tickled with my purchase. Everything that has been said about Supratek is true. Quite possibly the preamp deal of the century! |
ASA... I found khrys comments hilarious,especially the one to Bwhite... khrys claims?? he is independently wealthy from internet hyped factory direct products...Hyped internet products/mail order/ infomercial marketing tactics ...He thinks that is at work here!!! Well, my guess khrys was recently dumped , is alone during Christmas and is generally mad at the world...Anyway ,i am sure looking forward to my recent order of a syrah pre... |
Ecclec: yes, I hear you, but now, here, do you see? I'm not much of an appeaser. Besides, I know who Krhys "is", so I knew it wouldn't go far; anonymity is the hobgobblin of small minds. I called him out and the rest did the rest. But I know what you are saying and thank you for reminding me (6ch hits me with a stick!). BTW, you have very good ears.
Khrys, thank you for your, er, conciseness in the face of such..I would have picked Borderline Narcissistic Disorder, however, so you might want to pick another subject...
Carry on. |
Mlkiz, you will be shocked & amazed when you compare the CJ to the Syrah - it's not a subtle improvement. Within the Supratek range, the Syrah is the best value and has MUCH of the signature of the Cortese. To my ears, the major difference between the Cortese and Syrah is simply a bit of refinement which after some consideration, to me was worth the extra $$. Tonality and character remains very similar between the two. By refinement, I mean the Cortese is just a bit more precise, solid and quieter than the Syrah.
As for options - the remote works well and so does the "new" version of Mick's home theater by-pass. This option allows you to seamlessly integrate your multichannel HT processor/receiver with your main 2 channel amp. |
I just contacted Mick about ordering a Syrah. I'm assuming most of you still love this preamp and that even though its his most basic model, it is still a great piece of equipment which competes with much more expensive units. Do you still feel that way? I hope the Syrah is at least much better than the Conrad Johnson PV12 with phono that I currently have and have enjoyed. Also, besides the remote control, is there anything else special I should be asking him for? Thanks for your help. |
I too have experienced exceptional customer service and support from Mick. He bends over backwards to help customers with repair issues if/when they arise & cannot be resolved locally. In the event of such a need, Mick never hesitates to make the financial burden fair for both parties. |
Waltersalas
I had the same noise problem on the phono a few months ago. I sent the Syrah back to Mick and his also fixed the problem and returned the unit to me within a few days. What can you complain with his service level? Did you pay any import tax? I declared a value of US$1,000 and end up paying $95 for the tax. I am still trying to claim it back. |
So let me get this straight. Someone is trying to tell Supratek owners that since we choose to tube roll in preamps that we purchased that our preamps cannot be the "preamp deal of the century" just because they all sound a little different. Let me assure everone that my Sauvignon is much better than the "preamp deal of the century" it is MY PREAMP and I don't give a care what anyone, especially someone who has never heard a Supratek, thinks about it.
Likewise, we all listen to our Suprateks with different ears, in different rooms, with different systems, and different music. None of which invalidates our personal preferences and experiences. Hi-End audio isn't about group-think, its about personal indulgence in musical reproduction. Now philosophize about that. |
Khrys,
I should know better than to continue down this path with you, but since you seem intent on doing whatever you can to cause trouble and thumb your nose at us, I must respond to your implication that the Supratek deal wouldn't be quite so sweet if an owner finds it necessary to send the unit back to Australia for servicing. As it happens, I had to do just that with my Syrah, due to some noise in one channel, the cause of which Mick and I could not pinpoint after several email exchanges. So I boxed her up and sent it back to Mick. In less than three weeks (including the time it took to ship there and back), it was back in my system, good as (no, better than) new. Mick responded to my initial emails immediately, and took a lot of time trying to solve the problem so that shipping the pre back would not be necessary. When that didn't work, he split the cost of shipping with me and fixed the amp the first day it arrived in his shop, stopping work on new units to attend to mine right away. He then kept it for a couple of days to make sure it was functioning properly, and kicked in a free upgrade to the most current specs (I had had the Syrah for a year before the noise began, and it only occurred in the phono stage). In short, I got an upgrade for half the cost of shipping. I believe Mick now has someone in the states who can work on the units, should that be necessary. I would rate his customer service as second to none.
I find it ironic that you would disparage those of us who bought the Supratek gear largely based on Internet testimonials of other audiophiles (some of whom may even have a frame of reference to rival your own!). Just to be clear--we have all actually HEARD the Supratek, and you haven't, right? Given that, your level of "discernment" on this particular subject is astonishing indeed.
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WalterSalas...And a Merry Christmas to you.Walter I was being alittle factitious with my comment about beleiving all these strangers...How would you possibly know?.On a lighter note...Thank you for pointing out that you and others have also abandoned your discernment over choosing a supratek product...I was scared and up set for alittle while thinking that i was the only one...You cant beat word of mouth advertising like this...Mick...you...me... we all benifit |
Kut me to the Kwick Waltersalas!
I am bored and often boring except to those who respond to the trolls.
I have considerable experience with NOS tube-rolling and thus have amassed a sizeable collection of Telefunkens, Mullards, Amperex, Mazdas etc. Few improved the sound of the stock tubes supplied but they all made it different. Very different. If you all roll the tubes of the Supratek right out of the box then none of you is listening to the same preamp. Nor will you ever replicate its performance should you ever have to replace a tube, presuming NOS (not Chinese mimics)would still be available (the North American and EU verified stocks of NOS are bare, to be sure). But you can rest assured that you have the preamp deal of the century (20th, 21st?) until you try to send your beauty back to western Australia for servicing or updates. Abandon aural discernment. The Internet Rules!
Why even listen when your computer dictates your prediliction? And you're so sure you've found the next real thing. |
Tubegroover, your advice is sage.
Mark, your last post epitomizes the elegance of psychosis.
Stiltskin, I have a few thousand acres of land in northeastern Wyoming in which you might be interested.
Or perhaps a bridge connecting Brooklyn with Manhattan?
With your abandonment of discernment no wonder you feel so at ease. |
Stiltskin,
Welcome to the club. Since there is not much of a way to audition Supratek gear, most all of us here have had to buy on faith and the testimonials of strangers. If you have spent any time reading through this thread, you know already that the vast majority of folks who have made this leap are very glad they did so. Happily, we have all abandoned discernment and are now enjoying the music like never before. My advice--not that you need it--is to avoid buying any bridges from bored (and boring) trolls. Save your money for NOS tubes. The stock are fine, but finding the right tubes for your system will take you to another level. We look forward to your report when your pre arrives.
Merry Christmas.
|
Khrys...Merry Christmas, I hope all is going well for you this time of year... |
Tubegroover, your advice is sage.
Mark, your last post epitomizes the elegance of psychosis.
Stiltskin, I have a few thousand acres of land in northeastern Wyoming in which you might be interested.
Or perhaps a bridge connecting Brooklyn with Manhattan?
With your abandonment of discernment no wonder you feel so at ease. |
I just put an order in for a syrah pre...Purely on the faith of complete strangers that bought one...Funny thing, I have never felt so at ease and comfortable with a purchase like this in my life... |
ASA. Do you "really" want to go there? Come on now : I know your a much bigger man than this. Just leave it be brother .All of you here have a very Merry Christmas and all of the best in the New Year. Sincerly David. |
kryhst, and evryone else...sorry, got off on a detour out there, somewhere.
Hi Zaikes. Soup sounds great. Thank you for remembering me. Merry Kryhstmas :0)
Khrys: hmmm, discretion is the better part of...would you like to pick a subject with me? I will let you pick it, and go first. Say, a Ch. Lafite Roth '86, or why a scientific instrument's product may deviate from what you say is the truth, or, better, what you say is the Truth...hmmm, references, not-so-obtusely to socio-economic class, I wonder how/why you did that, just for credibility sake - that's the context you impliedly offer - but, is that true (ask yourself...)?
Well, the question: what is your system that your socio-economic status has wrought? As in, the context for your aspersions, beyond the pat-old-and-tired irrational regressive one, sans argument or evidence...or context. You know, the first requirement of empiricism applied; that evidence asserted exist within a context of events to minimally qualify to be subjected to a peer group. I think even Tesla would tell you that one, or Descartes, or Kuhn, or...bwhite.
What are you doing now? Do you think I know? I think I do.
Come a little closer, come a little closer, so I can see you better...said the cat.
Mark |
Khrys, in the world of audio and wines, based on my experience which is reasonably broad with the former and decidely limited with the latter, the Supratek products would have the bouquet and flavor of a finer vintage at a price the common man might afford. While I love wine I purposely keep myself from getting too involved, I really don't need another expensive hobby so I limit my palate to expensive beers :)
Now to a true connoisseur such as yourself, the flavor of this product might not be on par with your obviously refined tastes and resources to acquire the absolute best so in that vein the Supratek may not be your cup of tea..er glass or wine but it is none the less a great value and a great product, a fine vintage at a truly excellent price, no hype, really. |
Bwhite, having become independently wealthy from the sale of internet-hyped factory-direct products, only a degree of remorse guides my posts. You tell me if I have anything better to do. |
Jjprez- Not sure what the actual #s are, but its high gain for sure! Selectable loading w/a 4 way slider "on the fly" and plenty of gain to handle a 0.25 mv mc cart. |
Rx8man, I'm just grooving on how long it takes my poor old 'puter and dinky dial-up connection to load this page...this is what audio-chat has reduced me to for entertainment... :-) I'd be sort of interested to know what it is about this particular thread topic, of all the threads on Audiogon, that could have predicted such a massive response - but not actually curious enough to go back and read through it all to see if the reason could be teased out. So I'll just ride with 'shit happens' and be OK with that...
(Mark: It's alright - I'm not going to stay on this thread, so please carry on with impunity, and meanwhile I'll try not to take it too personally that you haven't posted to any thread I've been on for the past year. Besides, I've got a 17-bean and smoked kielbasa soup to finish making before the holiday...Happy Festivus, everybody! ;^) |
Does anyone have specs on the Supatek preamps? Wha't the gain for line and phono? is it switchable? what about loading? There doesn't seem to be info on this on the site. |
Khrys, don't you have anything better to do? |
Zaikesman, I thought about posting the same thing you said too, I think this is an Audiogon World Record !! |
707th post. Just noticed this when it popped up on the radar screen, freaked and hadta do it (I'll not be reading the other 706 :-) And I *had* thought I was a real Audiogoner...We (I and my preamp) are not worthy...
(I didn't even know Asa still walked among us. How's it hanging old buddy?) |
Clearly you boys don't know your Syrah from your Shiraz. Or your Burgundies from your Bordeaux.
You don't think it's odd that Mick's creations are named after substances known to distort and seriously impair and distort aural acuity? Is this some coincidence? Or perhaps a recommendation for auditioning?
No wonder they're sold "factory-direct". |
Burgundies on the way! Just heard from Mick and my Burgundy amps are in transit. Mick says there extraordinary (he gets to listen to them before me).
I've been waiting about 4+ months for them. He had some delivery problems from transformer amnufacturer (specially designed and built for Mick's application). I just know they are going to be spectacular. Hoping that they will have enough muscle to drive my Avalon's. is there anyone else out there that has used these amps? |
Not bad Asa.
Did you order yours with the tesla-coil option for maximum Hollywood retro-look?
How's that? |
Khrys, I'll bite...
you jealous little baby.
how's that? |
Well, thank heaven they're not directly heating their rectifiers. |
Those with lowbrau tastes will find it difficult to appreciate the enlightened qualities of Supratek preamps.
Given the nature of the following of Supratek owners on this thread a non-supratek-owner can only conclude that either Mick's creations are as good as everyone says or that everyone is smoking the same stuff. |
Why are all these things named after wines? I look forward to Supratek's "Thunderbird" and "Mogen-David" versions. Or maybe a sober assessment of their real worth. Surely the "cannabis" editions cannot be far from development. |
Very good analogy from Jazzdude,No one should use any directly heated rectifiers with the supratek preamps. Although the guy's assessment is bang on about the sound of a ux-280. |
You just got the word from the man. How could we give you a more informed answer? The reason for no directly-heated rectifiers is the that they don't have a slow startup. When you power it on the components don't have time to adjust to the current voltage. This causes shorter cathode stripping and leads to tube life, shorter cap life, etc. The chances of damage increase with each time you turn it on. If you decide to continue using the UX-280 you should leave it powered on at all times. |
I own a Syrah for some time and I have tried several rectifiers including Bendix 6106. 2 weeks ago I was suggested to try a RCA UX-280 directly heated rectifier and the sound was amazing! I asked Mick whether 80 rectifier can be used but his reply is NO. He also said it may even damage the power supply. Can anyone give me some advice about this? Thanks! |
Dilly, You will hear a big improvement over the McIntosh preamp if you switch to a Supratek. While I have never listened to the C2000, my experience with McIntosh through owning and auditioning is that their amps are their strong suit. The preamps/processors and Mac digital I've listened to sounded equal to or in some cases less than other mid-fi home theater products. |
Whatever a person settles on for regulators and rectifiers, they need to be considered together as a whole. I prefer the dual-plate 5932 and gz33 together because this combo never stumbles on large dynamic contrasts. There is definitely a interactive aspect between regulator and rectifier. A different rectifier may well prefer a different regulator. |
Hi BWhite, I came across this thread by accident. The Spratek Syrah seems to be a fantastic pre from what i have read so far. I am also on the lookout for a decent tube pre to mate with a Mcintosh MC352/402 which i hope to purchase in the near future. At present i'm using the MA6900 integrated with TDL Ref. studio monitors & my only source- a Linn CDP.
I was considering the C2200 as the pre for the above system. From what i have read I gather that you were using the Syrah with a MC2000. I'm sure you would have considered the C2200 at some point for the MC2000. If so I am very interested to know how the Syrah compared to the C2200 . I shall appreciate very much if you can let me know your views on the comparison .
Thanks in advance,
Dylon |
Hello Brian and Jazzdude. The early 6L6G[shoulder shaped bottle] are very good and quite a bit better than the later GB's or GC'c types in my syrah. Brian.....Email me off line regarding the WE 350b's. Cheers David. |
Hi Brian, what 6L6's do you recommend? I just purchased a pair of Neotron 6sn7's for my line stage. I was told by someone that has a Syrah that they sound great in his. I will let you guys know what I think of them. |
Jazzdude - thanks for mentioning that. I wonder why Mick suggested to not use 6550/KT88 as voltage regulators. I've been told they are electronically the same as any 6L6 tube - it's just that they can take accept higher plate voltage. |
When I first got my Sauvignon I quizzed Mick on the acceptable tube substitutes. He told me not to use the 6550's or KT88's as voltage-regulators. I never asked why. |
On the line stage portion of my Cortese I use Mullard CV181/ECC32. NOTE: These did not work in my friends Syrah for some reason. The power supply has Genalex Gold Lion KT66's and the Bendix 6106. I added Telefunken CCa's to the phono. Previously I was using a Mullard GZ37 rectifier but it didn't sound good after I put the Accuphase transport into my system. The Bendix really made a nice improvement with this transport but didn't work too well in my system when I had other transports.
The regulators tubes are a great place to tweak the sound. The improvement I can hear in my Cortese and a friends Syrah (who also uses the KR Black Glass) are worth the investment. That said, I am considering buying Ecclectique's 350b's! :)
The TS 5881's are okay but actually seem a bit dark and muffled to me these days.
Recently I have been playing with Svetlana KT88's, GEC KT88's, TungSol black plate 6550's, GE 6550's, RCA metal 6L6 and some others in the Cortese (and Syrah) but right now, the Genalex Gold Lions fit my system the best.
Slowhand, I'd recommend trying as many 6L6 type tubes as you can get your hands on. |
My tube compliment mirrors slowhands exactly, except for the regulation tubes. I use western electric 350b's in place of the tung sol 5881. |
