Thiel is terrific,
You have assembled a very worthy list of amplifiers. I've heard the D' Agostino and the Ypsilon amplifiers on 4 occasions between the RMAF and CES. Show conditions no doubt but in good rooms that were very well setup on each occasion. Sometimes you can get a feel for the brand's "house sound" generally speaking.
The Ypsilon is the more impressive in my opinion. It comes across as more natural, musically involving and ultimately more interesting and captivating compared with what I heard from the D' Agostino demonstrations. Ypsilon products consistently sound exceptionally well when ever I've heard them.
You're planing to audition these various amplifiers which is near mandatory at this elevated level. Obviously hearing them driving your Thiele is the ideal scenario. I look forward to your listening impressions.
Charles |
That's an intriguing pairing of the Negra and Ypsilon, I bet it'll sound gorgeous. Home auditions aren't always possible to arrange, it good that you have an accommodating distributor. I am curious to read your listening impressions of the Ypsilon in your system and how it compares to the other candidates. I've heard the PST 100 and thought it was superb, natural the antithesis of electronic hifi sound character. An expensive brand but at least they sound quite good.
Charles |
Unsound,
On paper you could be right, thus the beauty of a home audition in order to get the actual listening experience. Specifications are helpful but aren't equal to a hands on contact scenario. We'll soon read his impressions.
Charles |
Thieliste,
You have multiple good choices available as the suggestions you’re receiving confirm. However if you are able to have the Ypsilon pre and power amplifiers pairing , that is one very compelling direction to follow.
Good luck,
Charles |
Thieliste,
Michael Fremer reviewed the Aelius for Stereophile and when JA did the customary post review measurements this amplifier was stable at 2 ohms and produced 445 watts into that load. I don't believe that your Thiels will be a problem at all. I just believe that it will be likely the best sounding amplifier of those on your list. Just my opinion.
Charles |
You are certainly taking the path of superb quality.
Charles |
I’ve read numerous posts by Thiel owners who preferred tube rather than their SS amplifier due to superior sound quality in "their" opinion. These tube power amplifiers don’t increase power into diminishing loads, yet to many they managed to sound better. Lots of factors determine the ultimate sound quality we hear.
Charles |
Hello unsound, I'd think that one determines "working well" by how it preforms in the music signal chain i.e. reproducing music in your system. You'd listen and decide if you like or dislike what you hear, this is why a home audition is so valuable. What we want from an audio product is for it to sound good enough to the point where we'd willingly purchase it.
Too much emphasis on the doubling the power as the speaker impedance is halved. The Aelius can handle a 2 ohms load, the relevant factor is does it or any amplifier "sound" good while doing so.? You'll only determine that via one method, listening. Thieliste will fortunately soon have this opprotunity.
Charles |
Unsound,
I understand your perspective. My essential point is that listening is the final arbiter and is of course guided by personal objectives and taste. This explains why one Thiel owner will insist that high power/current SS amplifiers are the only way to go. Another owner will retort, "been there and done that, tube amplifier was better for me". It appears that Thiel owners have various routes to success.
Charles |
Thieliste,
I like your approach and priority placed on the actual listening quality, isn’t this the whole point of having home audio, to "enjoy" music reproduction?
I get the big powerful high current bipolar transistor concept to manhandle any and all speaker loads. This doesn’t mean or ensure necessarily good quality of sounnd. I really appreciate the input coupled interstage transformer and only two stages of gain design of Ypsilon, very smart! Quality watts indeed. I wish you could directly compare this amplifier to the D'Agostino on your Thiels, two very different design concepts.
Charles |
Hi Dave, Your experience with the Classe compared to your higher power Krell is not very surprising to me. In theory the massive Krell should have outperformed the Classe amplifier with the Thiels, it did not. There’s theory and then there’s actual real life experience. As you note, listening trumps specifications. The "quality" of the amplifier’s watts do matter. I’ve seen this type of outcome numerous times in a variety of systems. I don’t dismiss the value of measurements, but I believe they are over emphasized in some cases and they can’t account for sound quality. An amp can be capable of delivering high power/current to "drive" a speaker and yet some less than great doing so. Charles |
Teeshot's post is no more or less relevant than Dave's post, both are based on actual owner experience. The significance of Dave's comments is he had both amps on the same speaker and got the results he did. The point is one must listen when ever possible (easier said than done sometimes) . It would serve no purpose to downplay Dave's results because they may counter one's expectation of what works well.
The responses on this thread clearly show that there is no consensus on what works best driving the various Thiel speakers. This type of outcome is predictable. Dave is no more right (or wrong) than teeshot. They reflect Thiel owners with different meaningful perspectives to share on this o
pen discussion forum. This should be helpful to those considering owning a pair of Thiels. There're several viable pathways to success with them. Charles |
Same motive with me Thieliste. Your thread caught my attention due to your interest in Ypsilon components. Every time I've heard them they have delivered truly wonderful and natural sound. I'm curious to read how your home audition with the Aelius mates with the Thiels. Charles |
Just to be plainly clear to all, I intend no contentious element at all. Hopefully a friendly and interesting debate regarding the various experiences of happy Thiel owners who have success with various power amplifiers. Charles |
Tomcy6,
Good point in regard to long term listening and living with a component. A short term home audition is useful and beats no opprotuhnity to audition. Thieliste can achieve some degree of valuable insight with the Aelius paired with his Thiels.
Charles |
With a source of the Totaldac d1Twelve’s quality, that’s an excellent start for the signal pathway. I can vouch for the VAC Signature preamplifier. A good friend owned it for 4 years and I heard it over hundreds of hours during that period. It is a true top tier component. iit "makes music " if you know what I mean.
Charles |
French reviewer Joel Chevassus I believe introduced the Totaldac to the public with his 6 Moons review a few years ago. He did an Audiophile-magazine. com review comparison of the Swiss Nagra Jazz and Canadian Coincident Statement Line Stages. He was "highly" impressed with both. It'd be interesting to know his thoughts of these two vs the VAC Signature preamplifier.
Charles |
Hi Dave,
Opamp in the circuit kills the sound, good warning/advice Dave. I'll acknowledge that there may be some good sounding opamps available. I think generally speaking most audio components are better off without them. Interesting that two amplifiers (DR10 and DR25) from the same company can vary so greatly in their respective sound quality.
Charles |
Dave,
Your impressions regarding the Classe' models got me curious and I did a discussion search. Nearly unanimous agreement with you of the DR10 being definitely inferior to the DR25 model. Your response to Thieliste is àccurate and apparently widely held.
Charles |
Thieliste,
For all I know the CH Precision "could" be a better match with your Thiels than the Ypsilon. My comments were based on hearing these two brands 3 or 4 times at shows in of course separate rooms rather than direct comparison in the same system. Overall impression is that the Ypsilon consistently struck me as the more natural sounding. In your system this may or may not be the case. I'm looking forward to your audition comments.
Charles |
This is why High End audio is such a personal undertaking. It’s near impossible to account for all the different preferences people have and the many variables that play a role. I’ve heard a suite of CH Precision electronics at the CES a few years ago. In my opinion Ypsilon is better sounding between these brands. Of course my opinion is no more or less credible than yours, simply a reflection of different taste.CH Precision reminds me to some degree of Solution. For some listeners they represent sonic nirvana. I recognize that type of sound doesn’t impress me nearly as much. High End audio offers the beauty of many choices.
Charles |
No, I don’t accept the premise that you can have too much "true" transparency. I do believe that you can have too much brightness and tilted up high frequency region emphasis that some may interpret as transparency.
Charles |
Hi,
I'm happy that you finally had your home audition with the Ypsilon electronics as they are genuinely superb. I thought you'd be very impressed with their gorgeous natural sound character, natural is hard to do.
I know you're quite interested in the D'Agostino and I hope you can also hear them in your home as well. I was confident the Ypsilon would bring out the best in your Thiels.
Charles |
