RLWainwright, I've heard the Gallo's + like them very much as well especially for the price.
Your fried Walsh 2 cabinets are worth up to the original price in trade in value to someone looking to buy a pair of Ohms from the vendor. Or someone could ship them to Ohm and have them modified and upgraded to 100 Series 3 drivers or order the drivers and do the mods yourself if you are a DIY person.
Unsound, the Ohm/Walsh driver debate has been beat to a pulp in several other threads here on the A'gon already so no sense in rehashing details. The current Ohm "Walsh" line, all use variations of what Ohm calls the "CLS driver", which is largely omnidirectional and Walsh-like but not pure Walsh. For pure Walsh, there are still a few other options out there. |
Unsound,
Just to be clear, I am not in the audio or consumer electronics business or affiliated with Ohm or any other vendor in any way. I am not looking to profit from anything.
I did sell the Ohm line along with others many years ago when I did sell audio in my college days.
I am just a music and audio lover.
No malicious intent is intended, I assure you.
IF YOU WANT TRUE WALSH DRIVERS DO NOT BUY OHMS!!!!
OK?
Just trying to share some love...... |
Unsound, thanks + same back at you! |
I was just checking out Ramy's system on Audiogon with GP surround sound and multi level listening.
Now that's some setup! I imagine it must truly sound essentially like a live performance regardless of listening location.
The center channel speaker alone appears to cost a good bit more than my entire system! |
I was reading a Stereophile review of the original (series 1) Walsh 5 speaker/driver from 1987 that I had not come across before last night. The reviewer of the older Walsh 5's felt there were some midrange colorations with those speakers that negatively affected his ability to enjoy female vocals, opera, etc. and challenged Ohm to correct these down the road.
I can add to that observation. My original Walsh 2's (essentially smaller Walsh 5's) had similar coloration, which I describe in my review as "balanced timbre" issues.
Two series and 20 years later, I am confident that the Series 3 Ohm drivers have corrected the old timbre issues that existed compared to better modern designs. I confirmed that last night with a listen to a good quality recording of Mozart's Magic Flute. The female vocal's were as natural lifelike and absorbing as the rest of the presentation. It was like being in the opera house save perhaps for lack of sound reflections behind me, which I would atribute to my room acoustics, which are nothing special. Nice job Ohm on that one! |
Richinny,
I bought the super 2's used here on a'gon prior to the Walsh 5 investment in order to try out the waters first. I had them set up optimally in my main 12X12 listening room for several months in order to judge what they brought to the table.
I have never a/b'ed the Super 2's and f-5s in the same room, however I would confidently say that the Walsh line does work as the manufacturer claims, ie the smaller models sound like or perhaps even the same in smaller rooms as the larger models do in larger rooms, all other factors aside.
Since most all rooms are different and sound different, it is hard for me to confirm that they sound EXACTLY the same, however, I would feel confident saying that, once fully broken in, the smaller Walshes have essentially the same sonic characteristics I've attributed to the larger Walshes.
In my case, in either 12X12 room I have used the 2's in, the only difference I could cite is perhaps that the bass with the 2's in those rooms is perhaps more powerful with the same 150w/ch amplification as the f-5's in the larger room. The f-5s do have the unique advantage of the 4 level adjustment controls to match the overall timbre to room acoustics which help make placement even easier.
I have not heard the micro walshes, but I suspect the main difference you would hear with the Walsh 2 Series 3 would be a more powerful and extended low end.
The thing with the Ohm Walsh line as described in the Stereophile review on the Walsh 5's, is that they deliver a very lifelike soundstage compared to perhaps all but the best and most expensive box design speakers. You almost have to re-train your ears to some extent in order to properly "tune in" initially if you are used to hearing the sound come out of two boxes in a particular location.
With the Ohm Walsh line, you kind of have to think about listening to the room more than the speakers, if that makes any sense. Now that I've "tuned-in" to the sound of the Ohms in my rooms, however, I would feel cheated going back to most any other conventional box design speaker, at least any I know of in the same price range. |
Csommovigo,
The current Ohm's use a two way driver, not three, as I understand it. There is a separate tweeter for the high end but not a separate woofer. A single driver handles the midrange and everything below.
The Ohm A's and Ohm Fs were the first speakers to apply the original Lincoln Walsh design. There is some information about this available on wikipedia worth reading.
The German Physiks systems are very nice indeed from what I've read. Is there a dealer in the DC/Maryland area? I would love to hear them! |
Mamboni,
For a couple hundred or maybe less, you can pick up a used dbx range expander on ebay. I'd recommend a 3bX (three range expander) or better.
My 3bX series 2 can take the Ohms up to even yet another level in terms of dynamics! Compressed recordings have more impact and power. Recordings with exceptional dynamics already can take you into uncharted territory in terms of dynamics and impact!
The Ohms seem capable of handling whatever you can throw at them in terms of power and dynamics, that's for sure! This is one area where I feel certain without much chance for doubt, from what I've read and heard, that the engineers at Ohm have clearly improved the line over the original A's and F's.
The dbx works well with my other speakers as well, but tops the charts with the Ohms in my house. |
Csommovigo,
I will have to try and come by and catch a glance and listen!
Thanks. |
I wanted to share some tips based on some recent experience.
The Ohms are fairly easy to locate compared to most designs, however I have found that optimal placement achieved via critical listening and experimentation with location is critical to achieving the true "magical" results that many who have heard Ohm Walsh designs associate with the brand from experience over the years.
When properly located, imaging accuracy in the horizontal plane should be razor sharp and well defined and extend significantly from floor to ceiling, not fuzzy or blurry as may have been inherently more so the case with the original Walsh CLS design from the 80's.
Also, once fully broken in the bass foundation in good recordings should be rock solid and have a lot of impact and dynamics, not sound soft or mushy or diffuse.
The original Walsh CLS line from the 80s is by far the most commonly found. The recent Series 3 line (~2005-present) is a major improvement. If you've heard original Ohm CLS speakers from the 80s and liked them but had some reservations, the new Series 3 line is definitely worth a try.
Interconnects can also make a difference with the Ohms. I have noticed major differences in micro and macro dynamics from IC to IC.
DNM Reson interconnects work very well with the Ohms in my system.
Speaker cables may make a difference as well but I do not have much uselful info to offer up on that topic. |
Csommovigo,
I may get in trouble for speculating here about Walsh drivers, but oh well you only live once...
I am not expert enough to comment on the waveform issue. I can confirm that I am older (under 50 though) and I did not hear anything at 20000 Khz when I ran a frequency response test record through the Ohm f-5s, even on axis with the tweets. I could hear most everything else down to 20 hz pretty consistently. It could be due to anything though in the signal path, from the cartridge up to my ears or some combination of the above.
I'm pretty sure in my younger college days, I did hear something up to 20000Khz when I ran the same test record through my old simpler, (and much cheaper!!!) system back then which consisted of a nice but unspectacular Philips turntable with Audio Technica Cartridge, Hitachi Class G receiver and Ohm L bookshelf speakers.
I may try tghe test again sometime with the L's, which I still run, or the Dynaudio Contour 1.3 mkIIs and see if I hear anything that way to determine if it is in fact my aging ears or not. The timbre of the Ls and the Dynaudio's are both a bit brighter in general than the Ohm Walsh line speakers and I do believe from my listening that the Dynaudio monitors, at least, are better in terms of pure high frequency resolution than the Ohms.
When I read about the DDD driver technology and the materials used (titanium, etc.) and try to envision what they might sound like, it is not a stretch for me to believe that these may very well technically best the current Ohms in the high end detail area, especially in the omnidirectional aspect.
I recall that the Ohm F Walsh driver also used titanium for the high end, but I believe the specs for the F's did not extend beyond 17000kHz or so either.
The other thing I noticed is that the larger German Physics full range speakers are a two way design, like the current Ohms, but the approach there is to use a separate driver for the low end, not the high. I have no doubt that this is a superior design in terms of omni-directionality, since low frequencies are inherently more omni-directional than highs.
The GP DDD driver must clearly be more omnidirectional at the high frequencies than the Ohm CLS design which uses a conventional tweeter there.
The GP DDD also appears to best the old Ohm F's as well in terms of high end extension. Given technology advancement since the days of the Ohm F, I would expect that the GP DDD would easily best the high end of the old Ohm Fs in most every other aspect as well.
Interesting stuff..... |
Mamboni,
I am not far from Pa.
You seem to really know your stuff. I will definitely contact you by email and see if maybe I can take you up on your offer to hear Walsh done right! I'm sure I can learn a few things and would enjoy the ride as well! |
For some closure, I finally took the plunge and acquired my "monster amps" a pair of Bel Canto Reference 1000 mkii monoblocs, 500w/ch into ohm doubling into 4, to drive the Walsh 5 S3s and the other speakers in my system. Monster in terms of power and current delivery, but certainly not in regards to size and power consumption.
These have met my expectations fully. They are vice like it seems in their ability to control the big Walsh 5 drivers. The sound has benefited accordingly. Rock, electronic pop, classical, large or small scale, everything is just about as good as I have heard anywhere..
The difference can be heard with the smaller Walsh 2 S3s as well. Same with Dynaudio monitors, OHM Ls (never knew these could sound this good). Even the little Realistic Minimus 7s out on my deck are not complaining.
The Class D amps are a wonderful innovation. I can strongly recommend the Bel Cantos for the OHMs. I suspect other well received Class D designs would yield quite similar results. |
Eldartford,
I think the current larger Quad electrostatics at ~ $12000/pair (don't recall the model #) are the only things I've heard other than the Ohms that has recently "blown me away", and competed for my reference standard.
I like my Dynaudio and Triangle monitors very much. They have many strengths as well that I like, but they are small monitors, and do not have the "blow you away" factor of the Ohms.
The same dealer also sells the Gallo Reference line. These sounded very good to my ears for just over $2000/pair, but were still a cut below the $12000 Quads at leat where I heard them.
The local dealer who sells the Quads told me that they used to sell the Ohm Walsh line (probably the original Walsh line, not series 2 or 3) as well years ago before Ohm went factory direct only and he had some very fond memories of them.
Of course, there are many other great speakers out there in this price range that others love and I have never heard.
I believe though that in their price range, especially starting at about $1000 for smaller rooms up to $5000-$6000 for larger rooms, the Ohms do offer a unique sound value.
If the German Physiks are the Lamborghini's of the various decendents of Lincoln Walsh's original Walsh driver design, I feel comfortable stating that the Ohms rate as say a Toyota Avalon, which is a very nice car, even if not the sexiest looking (though they have gotten better looking over the years in my opinion).
Maybe even a Lexus (if you splurge for one of the better veneer finishes)! |
Top Speaker Lines I Have Heard recently, like very much, and can recommend:
1) Quad electrostats 2) Ohm Walsh 3) Dynaudio 4) Magneplanar 5) Sonus Faber 6) Triangle 7) Focal 8) GAllo Reference 9) Totem 10) Usher
Other lines I've never heard but would most like to hear:
1) German Physiks 2) MBL 3) Apogee 4) Beveridge 5) Vandersteen |
I would also love to hear a pair of Jadis Eurythmie and Cain & Cain Abbeys or equivalent some day. |
Here's what they look like.
http://cgim.audiogon.com/i/vs/s/f/1205601379.jpg
|
Spike,
Wow, thanks for the compliments, but I can take credit for the photo only I suppose.
They are standard issue refurbs I acquired direct from OHM. TTBOMK, they are original F cabinets with OHms standard improvements and tweaks to match the new drivers, including the castors, which are a very practical tweak.
In normal lighting, they have a fairly conventional looking moderate dark walnut appearance. The flash in the photo (taken on a tripod for stability) makes the cabinets look much lighter and brings out the grain of the veneer to a much greater extent than one would probably notice live.
The F-5s are everything I've sought after in a speaker for that particular room, which is irregularly shaped and very challenging sonically. They give up very little if anything to anything else I have heard in regards to overall realism in presentation, including mbl, though I'll give the nod to mbl in regards to 3-d soundstage and depth of imaging at least when I've heard them properly set up and run of very high end and expensive mbl electronics.
|
"I think the series 3 will sound better than the fist generation one."
I can say from experience that series 3 100 drivers in Walsh 2 cabinets far exceeded the original Walsh 2s in regards to overall refinement and detail in all regards.
now there are even newer 1000, 2000, 3000, 4000, and 5000 drivers. These supposedly make major changes in teh Walsh drivers used and the resulting sound is described again as evolutionary but not revolutionary. haven't heard these yet. |
Saw this ad and thought I'd share. I'd be tempted if I lived closer.
http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649292568-ohm-f-speakers-and-belles-model-200-amplifier-belles-xlm-preamp/
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Lance those were the 100 series 3 drivers (8" drivers, one generation prior to current) on refurbed Walsh 2 cabinets. Somewhere between 1000 and 2000 models in the current line in terms of size and output.
All models in the walsh line at any particular time essentially sound the same when properly fitted to room size. So room size pretty much determines the driver size and model that will sound best.
I'll plan on it for this fall sometime after kids are back in school. I'd really like to hear your gear. |
Lance,
I’ve been running the Dynaudio monitors of late in the room where my smaller OHMs were, off the same Bel Canto c5i.
It’s amazing how different the Dynaudios in particular sound in there. More similar to the OHMs there, still a touch warm but not hot. Imaging is very holographic and detail is excellent. If I closed my eyes I might think there were some very good electrostat speakers playing which is not something I would have thought prior with the Dynaudio Contours necessarily.
You liked the sound in that room in particular it seemed. I think the all digital Class D Bel Canto amp may be a cornerstone of that sound. Its the single most versatile great sounding piece I have owned,
And...no tubes there! |
Ohm is listed as an exhibitor on Capital Audiofest 2018 website. That will be interesting! |