"S" shaped tonearm ?

Dear friends: IMHO, the ignorance is the worst " illness " in our audio world and at some levels it has no healing.

Unfortunatelly we can't do nothing against/help to in-deep ignorance: Vive le ignorance!!!!!!

Period.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Dear Jrw40: The tonearm subject is a complex one. The geometry on a tonearm is only one parameter to make a judge about.
In the tonearm subject IMHO it does not exist " black " or " white " like Pryso posted there are many parameter invlove to make a choose.

I own several tonearms: straight, S and J shaped, all of them with the right cartridge performs great. In many ways the S/J shaped tonearms are better than the straight ones, as a fact ( not in theory ) there is no single advantage on the straight ones against the S/J shaped ones ( I don't want to argue about internal continuity wire. ) and these ones has some advantages.

At least two of my tonearms, Micro Seiki MAX 282 and Audiocraft AC-4400 come with both arm wand types: straight and S/J shaped, figure what?, I'm using the S/J shaped ( I already try it the straight ones and I prefer the S/J shaped ).

In my experience there are " old design " tonearms like Lustre GST-801, Technics EPA-100 and EPA 100MK2, Microseiki/Audiocraft, etc, etc, that overall outperform many of today top straight/linear tracking tonearms.

The supposition that the straight tonearms are better ones it is only one more myth/marketing, because the in theory advantages can't be looking in the real world.
In the same conditions and with the right cartridge ( IMHO and experience ) I can't find any advantage on a straight tonearm against S/J shaped one.

This tonearm subject is very interesting and there are several things to talk about and of course several different opinions but I think that more important than only an opinion is to talk about experiences on the subject because at the " end of the day " that's what it counts.

As some of you know I'm on the tonearm design right now and I can tell you that this subject is really complex.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Dear friends: I respect all opinions including that of persons that has not any knowledge about.

Any one of you can take an Ikeda tonearm/Audiocraft/Micro Seiki/Lustre/Technics/Grace G940/Satin/Mission/MDC800/Dynavector,etc, etc, and test against say: VPI, Triplanar, Basis, Schoroeder, Transrotor, SME, Graham, Kuzma, etc, etc and in the same conditions you will see that the new ones have no any single advantage not only that but that the S/J shaped ones beats the straight ones ( it does not matters what the theory say about. )

There are so many parameters that are inside/influence in the quality performance of a tonearm/cartridge that it is almost impossible to say that the straight tonearms are better because in practice it is not.

Here are some of those parameters: type of bearings, bearing material, bearing tolerances, statical or dynamic balance way, position of the counterweight in reference to the cartridge stylus, counterweight isolotation, counterweight material, effective tonearm mass, tonearm material used, internal tonearm damping, external bearing damping, internal wiring quality, tonearm geometry, lenght of the tonearm, headshell design, headshell wire quality, headshell material, antiskating design, connectors type to the phono interconnect cable, tonearm base design and material used, etc, etc. These are only some of those tonearm parameters and we have to add all the cartridge parameters that are critical on the quality performance.

As any one can see it is very complex and that famous theory does not help here to say ( only for that theory ): this is better, no it can't period.

Now, old vs new. IMHO this is a controversial subject and depends of on what kind of audio items we are talking about because our opinion/experiences could change if we talk about amplifiers than if we talk about tonearms or TTs.
If we take tonearms/TTs I can say that the " old " ones not only are competitive with today gear but some times beat them.
It could be interesting to analyse tonearm/TTs designs like Technics ( EPA 100/501, SP10 MK2-3. ) ) that are great ones. Mi first question about is to ask who is Technics?, well Technics was/is a Panasonic division that belongs to Matushita corporation, could you imagine the research resources that the Technics designers ( yes a designer/research group not a single designer person with limited resources. )group had/have?
Thechnics EPA-100MK2 tonearm was designed/build in 1982 ( 25 years ago, still running and unbeatble!!!!!!), was the first tonearm made of Boron/Titanium material ( still today is the only one and no one use this material, wonder why?. ) that has the lowest bearing friction of any pivoted tonearm in the world, the on the fly VTA and damping adjustment is unique even to today standards, the quality construction is almost unsurpassed for any today tonearm, etc, etc, if in the future any one of you have the opportunity to work with this Technics Gem you could understand everything I'm talking about.
Technics?, take its TT motors, till today the direct drive motor specs are unsurpassed on the SP-10MK3 and Do you know which motor use the famous Micro Seiki TTs? well: Panasonic!!!!!!

It is a sad that these kind of professional people with no limit resources stay away from high end.

Old vs new ?, cartridges: Air Tight, Myabi, XV-1, Allaerts, Magic Diamond, ZYX, Transfiguration, Titan, name it. Well there are at least two " very old " MM ( yes you read well: MM!!! ) cartridges that ovearall beats almost any of today MC cartridges: Audio Technica ATML 180OCC and AKG P8ES Supernova VDHII and at least other ten more that are a challenge to any today MC cartridge design.

Yes IMHO some times the old designs are still a reference standard for today designs, at least on tonearm/TT/cartridges.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Dear Thomasheisig: " +++++ the most solid construction is straight. " +++++



So what, that is only one of more than 30 different parameters that affect the tonearm performance and is the equilibrium of all those parameters what makes a difference in a quality tonearm performance.



" +++++ but today there is no advantage anymore " +++++



Sorry but IMHO this kind of statement ( with all my respect ) only reveal non know-how on the subject.



Regards and enjoy the music.

Raul.

Dear Thomas: Yes, I agree with you: nothing is final.

" +++++ It is true, that there are more parameters which are important, but which have the priority? " +++++

Well IMHO to achieve the best equilibrium between all those tonearm parameters in the tonearm design/build could mean to choose those mix parameters trade-offs that do less harm to the quality sound. This is very easy to say but extremely hard work to make, but this is what we are looking for. Obviously that all those parameters have a different priority levels but at the end all are important ones, example: what advantage do you have with a straight/integral headshell tonearm that has mediocre bearings? or that the material choossed to build was the wrong one?: equilibrium/synergy is the name of the game.

All the tonearm names ( and several others ) that I already mentioned are very good ( not average ones ) designs by any today standards, in the future try to test one of them in your lovely audio system you own.

Now, there are advantages on a S/J shaped tonearms let me explain one or two of them:

when we have a removable universal headshell we can really match the cartridge to the tonearm in an easy way that with a non-removable headshell. The removable universal headshell give us the great/huge opportunity to change/choose for different headshells: with different build material ( aluminum, composite aluminum, magnesium, composite magnesium, ceramic, wood, carbon fiber, etc, etc ) that have different self damping conditions and different kind of resonance and these factors works along the ones in the cartridge and change the cartridge sound, not only the material headshell parameter help to us to match the cartridge to the tonearm but the headshell shape too and the headshell different weight ( that help to change the effective mass ).

All these factors/parameters on the headshell give us an almost infinity chances to obtain the best of the best for any cartridge, something that you can't do it with any of the tonearms that you own. For you can obtain the best of a single cartridge you have to have several different tonearm and test in which one you obtain the best sound, in the other side with only one S/J shaped tonearm you can do it trying different headshells ( that are inexpensive: 40-120 dollars ).
Now this not something that I read somewhere or that some one told me NO! I have almost all the experiences about. Right now I have more than 60 cartridges, many tonearms ( S/J/Straight ) and a lot of different headshell/wires ones, all these arsenal give me the opportunity to obtain the best quality sound for almost any cartridge ( including yours ) something that almost all analog audio people ( including you ) only can approach/dream but very difficult to achieve if not impossible.

Well, when you own a S/J shaped tonearm you own not one tonearm but several ones due to the universal removable headshell. There are other advantages, as a fact we can write a book about.

Now, I'm not against the straight non-removable headshell tonearm designs ( I own several ones ), these tonearm have advantages too and can give you a different kind of sound, which one is for you or other person?, that's depend of what we are looking for and which ones are the trade-offs that we choose.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Dear Johnnyb53: " +++++ Would an EPA-100 be better with a straight wand with integrated shell? "+++++

Well as you know Technics had the 501 that share many design parameters with the EPA 100, the 501 ( that I own too ) is a trsight non-removable hedshell tonearms that comes with 4 different effective mass arm wands, it is a great tonearm too but its quality performance it is not better than the EPA 100 or the EPA 100-MK2.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Dear Sirspeedy: IMHO you need to re-read some posts in the thread, now if you already make it then I have to say that it is not possible to " talk " with people with out know-how on the subject.

Your statement: +++++ " a "straight" arm linear tracker being the ONLY way to go.... " +++++, confirm that non know-how.

Everything ( choices/alternatives )in this life like in the audio subjects are surrounded of trade-offs. Your " ONLY way to go " tell us ONLY your mis-understanding about.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.

Dear Sirspeedy: I'm sorry for my misunderstanding.

+++++ " awaiting your arm design ..." +++++

Well, I'm awaiting too. Build/design a tonearm is more or less an easy task but build/design " the arm " is a hard task, very complex and time consuming. We are working in and if we achieve our targets then that tonearm will appear at the " audio world " but if we can't reach those targets then there will be no tonearm at all.

Regards and enjoy the music.
Raul.