Stage III Concepts Cables - Any Advice/Feedback/Thoughts is deeply appreciated.

Thanks  dave_b,
Yes I was going to keep my Pass mono's until I heard the Soulution 530 with Stage III Concept Cables and heard that elusive...wow like I've never heard before.

I wrote this thread because these cables cost as much as Pass mono's so just kind of trying to decide. Great stuff cost great money. I never spent this type of money on cables so kind of nervous and was hoping to get some feedback. 

inna
Thank you so much, this is the exact type of information I was hoping to hear.

A couple of the cables are expensive but semi-normal for really good cables.

The Stage III Concepts KRAKEN 1.5m Power Cable and the Stage III Concepts GRYPHON XLR 1.5m Interconnects are just crazy expensive but these seem to be the straw that mixes the drink.

Unlike those other audiophile you spoke of for me cost is always a big consideration so I approach such a product with caution only because I have to but that said these cables unleashed a level of sound quality that I have never experienced before in my life. Not in my room or dealer or show. Of course many times dealers just have mix and matched stuff through together and shows we all know the problems those rigs face but man did this experience strike me. 

Not with a $55k amp nor $40k speakers nor $30k class a mono blocks nor $15k DAC's has my system ever responded like it did with these cables but then again $15k for a single pair of Interconnects and a power cable I guess will do that.. 

I plugged them in and was like - holly @#%& what is this?

Man I wish they just didn't cost so much because it sounds so good its almost like cheating. It's like they have access to something none of others are even aware of.

I mean how could ever the cable effect deniers every argue with what I heard. Night and day does not do it justice. Smack right between the eyes was more like it. I am smitten and now its either time to pay or let that sound be something I am chasing forever forward. Couple of crappy options really but we all know this hobby can get expensive and fast and especially when you leg or two stuck in the high end cable rabbit whole which is where I seem to have found myself....    



  

jetter 

Why because rather than talking theory or some specs or quoting some review I actually take the chance and step up and buy the stuff that interests me?

Then I sometimes come on here when I am not sure about something and ask for help or advice? I try to be as honest as I can. I am certainly not a writer or anything like that so maybe it doesn't come accross great but I'm just trying to be honest.   

Most people on here help me out and I enjoy talking to them.

Others are like you make me think why do I even come on here but whatever I don't care?

So lets see because I buy new gear I must be dumb and not be able to tell the difference between good sound and new sound? 

Have you ever heard Stage III Concept cables? I never heard of them before I called the Soulution dealer.   

That is why I am asking for help. Are these legit serious cables and/or do others think they are great like I do? If I knew that then I would not be asking.  

So you don't think that someone who just added these items to their system could get better sound? I must just be different and I mistake for being better?  

Soulution 530 Integrated Amplifier 
Magico S5 MK II Speakers
Stage III Concepts GRYPHON XLR 1.5m Interconnects  
Stage III Concepts MAGNUS 3.0m Speaker Cables
Stage III Concepts MINOTAUR 2.0m Power Cable
Stage III Concepts KRAKEN 1.5m Power Cable
Solid Tech ROS 4 Reference Rack
Solid Tech ROS Amplifier stand 
2 Dedicated 20 amp Circulates with upgraded cable runs 
Synergistic Research Tranquility Base for under Bricasti M1SE
  

All this work and investment and its just different but I think its better? Whatever... 

Can anyone that has heard these cables or know of them help me out?
Thanks  

folkfreak

i am with you and good advice...

In fairness to me I thought I had the cables covered as I have a full loom of Kubala-Sosna Emotion / Elation cables and close to $30k MSRP invested in cables so I definitely took the cables seriously. 

I thought I was covered on the cable front until I took these Stage III on loan and then well I now know what I didn't know.

They are so much better. Way more than my S5 to S5 MK II upgrade, way more than Pass 160.8 from 250.8 and honestly the largest performance gain I've ever experienced in this hobby. 

Before I hooked the Stage III cables up I liked the Pass 160.8 way better than the Soulution 530. Way better. I was already preparing to ship the 530 out for a preamp and then I tried these Stage III and my system building was turned on its head.

Also, I agree with what you say about tweaks.

I have done quite a few tweaks as well. I have some really good Linear Power Supplies and premium digital cables, premium dc cables w/oyaide connectors OCXO Ethernet Switch with lps, premium RJ/E cables, Still point ultra's, symposium couplers, all black/black Solid Tech ROS 4 Reference rack and (2) ROS Reference amp stands, SRA platform, Synergistic Research Tranquility base platform and Symposium Svelte platform, eden component weights, ceramic cable holders,  ps audio noise harvesters, dedicated 20 amp outlets with the best furutech outlets and a bunch of  room treatments, as well as  Synergistic Research FEQ - Frequency Equalizer and a bunch of HFT's. 

I have hated every conditioner I have ever had. The crappy PS Audio P5, P10 and Running Springs, Audience, Isotech, Bybee, Shunyata, Audioquest, HiDiamond they all made my system worse and when after a while i plugged back into the wall I said awe much better. Sure there is ac line hash and crap that you can hear on the line but still the immediacy  and dynamic freedom is worth it. The wall has beat out every conditioner. I even tried and even non filter distributors and those were not any better. If I can find a good conditioner some day I am glad to use but trust me I have tried.

I would like to try one of those grounding units. I have not tried those yet.

I just don't want to people to think I was using a Soulution amplifier with crappy included cord with blue jean cables and no tweaks. I have been chasing cables and tweaks for years and have a ton invested there as well in that stuff.

Still with all of this those Stage III concept cable blew my system out of the water. 

I appreciate all the help and feedback. 

Thanks  



.   

celander

Thanks for the feedback.

I don't know about focus on aesthetics? Have you ever seen the Soulution 530 Integrated? It is one but ugly amp. My wife told me it looks like a college dorm fridge. Definitely not a good looking amp. The Pass Labs XA-160.8 Monoblock are awesome looking but they just got beat out by a college dorm fridge...lol My Magico S5 MK II looks exactly the same as my S5 MK I but I do like the new Platinum color better though. My old ones were that brown color and the new color is much better but they look like twins and cables they are in the back so can't really see them?

Well I do like your idea about earth grounds. I want to try one of those grounding boxes. Do they work well. I am not really familiar with those components? Do you use one? Is there one you recommend?
Thanks  

inna

Yes so you are committed to quality cables as well so that's good to know. Its just tough to put as much into cables as you have into your electronics but now a days if want your electronics and speakers to bloom at their best its the price we must pay.

I think the % of total system investment for cables has grown and as they keep getting better so do the electronics. As the electronics get better they now respond or take more advantage of the even better electronics so its all related.

The cables ends of the XLR IC's feel like like plastic where they plug into the back. I guess is carbon fiber or something but feels like and looks like plastic. Its really light and doesn't even lock but just rest in there. Kind of odd.     

inna

You are the man!

Thank you

I knew I could get some good advice on Agon. Sure there are a bunch of snipers, no it all's, sales people and newbies talking like they are experts on here but there are a lot good, old regular audiophiles willing to try abd help out and that is why I am here for those people. 

So I switched everything up and kept my K/S Emotion IC's and SC's but added the Stage III Concepts MINOTAUR Power Cable to my Bricasti M1SE DAC/Network Player and the Stage III Concepts KRAKEN Power Cable for my Soulution 530 Int amp. Man the Kraken power cable and Soulution 530 Int are a match made in heaven. This power cable absolutely transforms this amp and not to another level but two but like 10 levels. 

With the K/S cables in the signal path the sound is a little softer and lighter and not quite the same level of resolution but it's warmer which is a nice little add and sure all equal I still prefer the Stage 3 but much closer than I would have ever guessed.

I miss a little of that tighter, resoluteness that only the very best can offer but still quite a nice sound and I like the added warmth which Soulution can use a bit of I think.

The thing is for the money savings I like this. I need to spend some time to really get a feel for it but man these Stage 3 power cables are insane. I thought it was the full loom and each part was pulling its respective weight but its the darn power cables that just change everything. Now I see what people would buy a $10,000 cable. I never have and never would but I had no idea it could change an amp entirely like this also. Not the same effect with Pass Labs though. So either Soulution is very receptive or effected by power cables which maybe with all their switching power supplies and what not but who know it sounds insanely good and I now get to this incredible increase in sound for 30% cost of what I was looking at yesterday. 

I may have fumbled my way through trying each cable here and there but your idea not only saved me a ton of time probably a ton of money also.
Thank you   

dabe_b thanks but upper level MIT are insane prices. The Stage 3 are mostly demo and former gen so getting like 50% off type of thing so I don't I can get anywhere near MIT for that kind of money but I agree that upper level MIT are awesome but man those are expensive. 

dave_b 

Thanks - I would like to try MIT at 50% - 60% off but would have no idea where to start? So many different cables it’s so confusing? 
 Thanks 

millercarbon

Thanks for the info. Yes I have some HFT's and love them.
Thanks 

Jafant 

Thank you, when I spoke of the really good and helpful Audiophile’s on Audiogon you are one of the people I am speaking about. You always have a knowledgeable take and a kind word of encouragement for your fellow members and it doesn’t go unnoticed. It’s appreciated. Thanks 

Inna, 
Yes I tried it and these was some more drop off more showing that the Stage III power cables are monsters. I also have a couple power cables let’s over analog experiment when I owned a Surherland Duo phono Stage that are mono-blocks that require two power cables. 

I bought Audience Au24se LP Power Cables that have shown themselves to be very nice little source cables. 

One of these on my Bricasti was quite nice. Less then the Stage III and better then the K/S and decent. I need to listen more but starting to look like I can get away with just one power cable for my Soulution if I wanted but if I can a sell could of the cables I have I’m gong to try to get the two Stage III power supplies. 

I am really surprised by this because the Stage III Gryphon IC is a pretty serious cable but it seems my K/S Emotion is holding its own against and I never would have guessed that. 

Jetter I actually really appreciated your post before last. No worries. Your feedback is welcome and appreciated as well.

As is yours dave_b.

dave_b you provided some solid info and help.

Look, I was struggling trying to figure this out and sure enough I put my thoughts and issues on this website and I’m now in much better shape so I appreciate it.

I had to give a shout out to Jafant because he’s just such a gentlemen I appreciate him but that’s all that was.

I bought the Soulution with trading a Pre and cash and the Pass I bought by flipping my entire Analog front end, table, cables the works which I bought by flipping other stuff.

Other than gear that I traded or already owned and sold to raise funds the only actual money out of pocket was about $7000 which is pretty strong considering Pass Labs XA-160.8 and Soulution 530 and not cheap amps.

So now when I sell one of these I need to put back the $7000 back in account and the rest is my audio funds I can put back into my system.

So lets say i sell either for $15k then I have $8000 left to go back into my rig. It’s my audio money and most of it was invested in 2009 and I just keep pushing it forward by keeping my rig fresh and trying new stuff.

With my new Magico S5 MK II Speakers I really wanted to liquidate all my analog and extra stuff and get the best amp/Pre I could and that was my goal and what set me down this path.

I put my preamp for sale a couple weeks ago a guy with the Soulution 530 reached out to me asked me if I wanted to trade my pre and add some cash for the Soulution?

I was like no I don’t think so but looked into it a bit and was like man the Soulution gear is kind of bad a--. I said heck with it and did it. This was only a couple days after I got my Pass amps.

I was not looking to confuse myself or really get into any of this.


What I wanted to do was get a preamp for my Pass Labs and was looking long and hard at ARC REF 6.

But I pulled that trigger on the Soulution and plugged it in and was like dam. I like the Pass way better - what a waste of time and energy. I actually put it up for sale and had a guy in Singapore begging for it but he needs me to convert ot to 230v.

That was why I called the Soulution Dealer and that Dealer was like dude you have the wrong cables. I’m a Soulution Dealer I sell tons of these so trust me they are super particular about cables and insanely good sounding amps. I was like thinking on it.

He said hold off on the conversation to 230 and try these cables first.

I emailed the guy in Singapore. Nice guy, while Dealer is trying to get conversion parts for 230v I was going to try these cables.

i try them and them bam here I am.

Long story but I’m not some guy waking around stroking huge checks for all this gear and being like look at me and my gear I’m cool. That’s not it at all. I’m confused on what to do but doing a bit better now.

im a guy that kind of bit off more than I can chew and now don’t want to screw up going forward. I want to make the right choice and be happy with my choice.

Do I sell my Pass and spend $6000 - $8000 on new cables. Do I sell Soulution and spend $6000 - $8000 on a preamp for Pass?

Im trying to wrap my head around this situation and this is main reason why I am looking for help.

Sorry about typos I’m on my phone. Hope this sheds a little light on my plight.

I do definitely need to take a few weeks to decide.

Actually, one of the factors that is effecting me is the fact that the Pass needs two power cables and probably would be better with a preamp than just using my Bricasti direct. 

Retail on the Kraken PC is $10,400 which is insane but needing two of these verse just needing one is a big deal. Sure I am getting close to 60%+ off but still its a ton of money for a dang power cables...lol

So if keep the Pass I will then need pre and a couple power cables and honestly even so that would be much more in my comfort zone and in line with what I like and a choice that would be easier for me.

That said the Soulution with the expensive pc is better in my system. It just is and even my non aphile wife yes that sound much better and she can hear it but that is not with a pre and better power cables for the Pass. The Pass I am still using K/S power cables and I have learned power cables make a HUGE difference.

I always knew pc's we important and have over $10k retail into them already but never tried the really best of the best pc's and now I know. 

I think another big advantage for the Soulution is the 10,000 driver control vs 200 for the Pass. The Soulution is much more transparent and dynamic and resolute and just grabs the drivers by the throat and makes them submit. The bass is more precise and detailed but stronger and quicker the with Kraken pc. 

The Pass class a sound is much more loose and diffuse but still great in its own way and I have always loved the Pass Class A sound but it has never gone head to head with such a high resolution champ like the Soulution. It is not a bright either or cool sounding amp either. It has this sophisticated sheen to it. Not exactly warm but not cool either. It has some nice warmth as part of it. Nothing like the Pass Class A but still this sheen helps make that very high level of resolution so desirable.   

George, 

Great advice and I agree with you for sure. There is no doubt that with stock power cords or rather (Kubala-Sosna Emotion PC’s) I much prefer the Pass Labs XA-160.8 monoblocks over the Soulution 530 Integrated.

I actually found that the Pass improves with power cables but most it’s overall character stays in tact it just shows nice improvement across the board where the Soulution is an entirely different amp which is odd and great at the same time. 

I pretty much have already decided to keep my Kubala-Sosna Emotion IC’s and SC’s because they sound great with both amps.

Sure the Stage 3 cables are better but not as much as I would have ever thought and actually the K/S cables bring some warmth and actually a little better base to the table.

All equal I would choise the Stage 3‘s but only after thinking hard about it but at $6000 more is a no brainer. Well I could sell my K/S and maybe it would only be $3000 more but still I like the extra warmth that the K/S provides.

Now I wasn’t looking to use cables as an EQ to tune my system but rather just speaking honestly about what I feel the differences are between these in my system. 


Now if you said to me to me I could get (2) Kraken Power Cables for the price of one - what amp would I take - then that might be different but two of these power cables cost almost as the Pass amps which is nuts but even so the Pass gets much better with the Kraken cables but just doesn’t jump out it’s shoes like the Soulution does. 

Just keeping my K/S IC, and SC’s is a huge savings. I’m psyched for this and not sure I would have got here so efficiently with out you guyses help.

I do want to get loaned a second Kraken PC to see the true effect of it on my Pass. I tried them with a lower level pair of Stage 3’s.

Part of me doesn’t want to because if I love them I’m stuck with buying two of those beasts.

Another cool thing about the Soulution 530 Integrated Amp is it has a really good phono Stage. I’ve never used it but people that know says it’s nothing like the throw in phono stages so many companies drop in their intergrateds but rather a true Reference quality phono. 

They say the stand alone Sountion phonostage the 550 which is like $18000 is only a hair better and it’s outstanding.

Ive never tried it so I don’t know for sure but it uses all those premium switching power supplies and top quality parts and it’s one of the main reason this amp goes for $55,000 new.

Me and many other with this amp don’t really think of the phono and are more intersted is pure sound quality but if you love the sound quality like I do and knowing it has this is really cool. 

I actully sold my entire analog front end to upgrade my amplification so now if I grab a decent table and cart I’m good to go. 

One guy told me the best thing about the 530 is it’s fantastic phonostage so I think it is a cool extra to this option. 

For records i dont need to buy a phonostage or another power cable or another set of phono Interconnects. They are all included. Cool with a capital C! 

Hey Inna,
Those Gryphon 300's are really - really nice amps. Powerful, dynamic, a little dark but in a good way because Gryphon nails voicing their gear.

They do have a voice which some say is a bad thing but not me because regardless of what those experts say they all have a voice some less then others but that doesn't mean those are any better.

I happen to really like the Gryphon sound which I would describe it as strong, vibrant and sophisticated. Polished with a very skilled and practiced hand. It's like they kept teasing it out over and over and drew a little more out each time until they got it right where they wanted and teased it out some more and I think they really nailed it.

Their digital is really underrated and excellent also. I am told the phono stage in that unit is the scaled own version of an amazing phono.

People take shots at them because of their prices, market positioning and branding but its most just jealousy. I think it is very well made and truly expertly built and really creamy gear. Yipson has the air, extension and space. Soulution speed and transparency and a grasp on the drivers like no other and the Gyphon is vibrant, dynamic and creamy sound.   

I am a definite fanboy of the Gryphon. They are no joke.   

At first I thought it sounded a little like the really good Rowland gear but its better.

Their separates are insanely good but also insanely expensive. 

There is one of these around with no phono for around $12,500

My buddy Josh a Walker Audio has a brand new for a really good price that I don't want to list on here. I thought long and hard on it before I spend more for the Soulution. PM me if you are really interested in one and I will get you a brand new one for a lot less than the price you have.

Cheers... 

 

I just spend an 3/4 of an hour on the phone on a 3 way call with my Soulution / Stage III dealer and Brian Ackerman the proprietor of aaudio imports. What an awesome and knowledgeable guy. His brands are below.

http://www.aaudioimports.com/ShowBrand.asp?hBrand=14

Here are is his brands 

Acapella  |  Acoustic Research  |  Audiotop  |  B.M.C.  |  Finite Elemente  |  Hartvig  |  HB Cable Design 
Ikeda  |  Isoclean  |  Lansche  |  Metaxas  |  Millennium  |  Stage III  |  Tandem 
Thales  |  Wilson Benesch  |  Ypsilon 

Brian gave me all the background info on the guy that makes the Stage III cables by hand. It is one guy and he makes everything by hand..

Guy is amazing and man these things are built by hand with the most insane materials and parts quality. They use 3d printers and palladium / silver alloys and carbon fiber and all this crazy damping material and it was really cool.

Talk about a boutique specialty brand. This is some amazing stuff. Sure it cost a ton but talk about the opposite of mass produced stuff. He said he sold well over 500 of the Kraken power cables that are $8500 a pop and $10800 for 2 meters. That is a lot of cheese right there... 

He was telling me about the not too overly expensive Ypsilon integrated that is a special transformer based volume control that no one else in the world uses. He was saying it is the exact same as the separate pre/monoblock just not as much power but they are pretty much exactly the same. It is $24k and used the same stuff as a $37k preamp and $38 power amp which is pretty awesome.

I am a sad excuse for an audiophile. Already looking to demo another amp when I have 2 I am trying to decide on now. It is a sickness I tell you a true sickness...lol  

Inna,
Honestly you might want to look at this before the Gryphon. Brian was going off. He thinks its the best amp Ypsilion makes and Michael Fremmer called the Ypsilion phono the greatest audio anything he has ever heard and he still thinks that today. Brian said this integrated is better.

Sure, he sells the stuff but no for nothing. This guys doesn't my sale to be ok in life. He is doing pretty well. Super, nice, soft spoken guy also.

Here it is: 

http://www.aaudioimports.com/ShowProduct.asp?hProduct=251