Baselines are biased, when they appear, and the guys who run it all use more or less the same equipment (Kenwood), except for the one off-center guy who uses a *gasp* Sansui.
---1st of all, the above is not true. 2nd, the site is actively supported by over 3700 members. and, the sites opinions reflect the diversity of its members, not yust the opinions of the folks who run the site.
FYI- I actually use a Kenwood tuner, but I don't think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread, which is my point: Accuphase, Sansui, Sony and several others all made great tuners you can pick up for around $60 now, that sound as good as many things that are hundreds of dollars more.
----i bought a modded kenwood kt-7550 the tuna that is the shootouts authors fave tuna. i liked it, but it was certainly not *my* fave. i have many other personal disagreements w/the shootouts rankings. but does this mean that i think the site has no useful info? absolutely not. i have a brain, & can separate the wheat from the chaff. ;~) actually the most meaningful statement in the shootouts, imo is where the author is comparing his top-dog kenwood l-02t tuna to the mid-pack pioneer f-91. (an excellent sounding tuna, imo, btw.) he states:
...In a large room, in a big sound system, I might choose this Pioneer over the L-02T...
i couldnt agree more, that the differences between good tunas are in fact quite small; this statement illustrates this fact quite succinctly.
and, *PLEASE* - tell me where i can find a sansui tu-517 or better, or *any* accuphase tuna for $60! :>) not interested in the sony's; i already know of fantastic $60 tunas from philips/hitachi/nikko that aren't as ugly. ;~)
I didn't say that spec's don't effect things, but then again spec's aren't everything... ... so basically spec's can mean whatever you want them to, based on how you measure them...
---this cracks me up. earlier you complained that there arent specs or measurements, then you say they arent everything. :>)
...Fm Tuner Info though "has the answers" on "what's best" in the tuner world. Which is almost always a heads up that you are dealing with either an idiot or a zealot. Saying it sounds "good" to you based on some meaningless baseline is neither engineering or science...
---are you *sure* you didnt just scan the tic? perhaps you are reading a different site than the one i am reading. the one *i* read makes it perfectly clear that it does *not* have the answers. that what sounds good to one person may *not* sound good to someone else. that a tuna that sounds mid-pack in one system may be the best sounding tuna in another system. this is one of the reasons i like the site so much. the engineering & science it *does* stress is that of quality alignment/parts/rf engineering. stuff that many contributors to the site know a hell of a lot about.
It also has nothing to do with applied audio theory. Does anyone really believe that a 500w receiver from Best Buy is a true 500w and sounds better than a 20w tube amp? And anyway, what kind of 500w? Class A, AB or D? Am I supposed to be impressed? Because I'm not.
---again, i am not sure what site you are reading, cuz the above has nothing to do w/the tic which *i* read.
For instance someone made a key statement above: the Marantz 10B "can be" one of the best tuners out there when aligned correctly, etc. Well of course it can: it has one of the biggest plates around, the 805 tube, and so by virtue of electric theory it must be one of the most sensitive and widest in audio bandwidth. But not acccording to FM Tuner Info. Not the MR71 either. They found both "flabby" and "grainy". Well... you can pretty much stop right there, can't you? Because either they don't know how to properly align a tuner, they don't know how or when to change a tube, or they're deaf. I'm not a "the-more-expensive-it-is, the better it is" guy, but those two tuners are top notch."
---many many tuna aficionados do not like the 10b. actually, in the tuna world the 10b is a wery polarizing entity. and, i think the tics write-up of the 10b on its site is wery well-balanced, & accurately reflects the diwersity of opinion about this tuna. (in fact, one of the stellar attributes about the tic site, imo, is that it is so balanced in regards to most *every* tuna, giving, whenever possible, counterpoint opinions & other reference sources for those seeking more info.) so, no, i pretty much *cant* stop right there. again, it has me questioning whether or not you are looking at the same tic i am looking at. another point re: the 10b - many tuna & marantz aficionados think that in fact the 20b was the best tuna marantz ever made.
and nowhere on the tic could i find the words flabby or grainy mentioned w/either the 10b or the mr71. mebbe you are referring to someones opinion on the yahoo forum? or another site altogether? and, most (if not all) the time, the state of a tunas refurb/alignment is stated when its being talked about. re: the technical abilities of folks like bob fitzgerald , bill ammons, mike zucarro, mike williams, ken bernacky, ed hanlons secret tech, mark wilson, terry dewick, etc; you will not find better qualified tuna technicians *ANYWHERE*. jus cuz *you* think the 10b & the mr71 are top-notch, doesnt mean that they *are*. mebbe there's a disagreement about them between knowledgable people? mebbe others respect them, but like other tunas more? so this means that they are either poor techs, dont know when to change a tube, or are deaf? and you say the tic is the group that has issues? lol! :>)
One of the reasons I like 6 Moons even though many of their reviewers are about 180 degrees from where I am on the audiophile spectrum is they actually tell you what kind of music they like, the dB level they play it at, and what their favorite components and room treatments are, and how long they have had them. You can kind of relate to someone then, even if you wouldn't want their system. "I put it on my oscilliscope in my basement" and it "sounds good" isn't good enough... ...I mean seriously... ...would you buy a car from a guy who told you he had turned it on and it came on ok, so he's sure it "runs good"? I think not.
---i like 6 moons also. but the: "I put it on my oscilliscope in my basement" and it "sounds good" statement isnt even close to what the fmtunerinfo.com site is all about. not even a little bit close. like i said before, you either didnt look at the site thoroughly (there is a *lot* of info there), or you are looking at some *other* site. because surely you can comprehend what you are reading. you can, cant you? ;~)
ymmv,
doug s.
---1st of all, the above is not true. 2nd, the site is actively supported by over 3700 members. and, the sites opinions reflect the diversity of its members, not yust the opinions of the folks who run the site.
FYI- I actually use a Kenwood tuner, but I don't think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread, which is my point: Accuphase, Sansui, Sony and several others all made great tuners you can pick up for around $60 now, that sound as good as many things that are hundreds of dollars more.
----i bought a modded kenwood kt-7550 the tuna that is the shootouts authors fave tuna. i liked it, but it was certainly not *my* fave. i have many other personal disagreements w/the shootouts rankings. but does this mean that i think the site has no useful info? absolutely not. i have a brain, & can separate the wheat from the chaff. ;~) actually the most meaningful statement in the shootouts, imo is where the author is comparing his top-dog kenwood l-02t tuna to the mid-pack pioneer f-91. (an excellent sounding tuna, imo, btw.) he states:
...In a large room, in a big sound system, I might choose this Pioneer over the L-02T...
i couldnt agree more, that the differences between good tunas are in fact quite small; this statement illustrates this fact quite succinctly.
and, *PLEASE* - tell me where i can find a sansui tu-517 or better, or *any* accuphase tuna for $60! :>) not interested in the sony's; i already know of fantastic $60 tunas from philips/hitachi/nikko that aren't as ugly. ;~)
I didn't say that spec's don't effect things, but then again spec's aren't everything... ... so basically spec's can mean whatever you want them to, based on how you measure them...
---this cracks me up. earlier you complained that there arent specs or measurements, then you say they arent everything. :>)
...Fm Tuner Info though "has the answers" on "what's best" in the tuner world. Which is almost always a heads up that you are dealing with either an idiot or a zealot. Saying it sounds "good" to you based on some meaningless baseline is neither engineering or science...
---are you *sure* you didnt just scan the tic? perhaps you are reading a different site than the one i am reading. the one *i* read makes it perfectly clear that it does *not* have the answers. that what sounds good to one person may *not* sound good to someone else. that a tuna that sounds mid-pack in one system may be the best sounding tuna in another system. this is one of the reasons i like the site so much. the engineering & science it *does* stress is that of quality alignment/parts/rf engineering. stuff that many contributors to the site know a hell of a lot about.
It also has nothing to do with applied audio theory. Does anyone really believe that a 500w receiver from Best Buy is a true 500w and sounds better than a 20w tube amp? And anyway, what kind of 500w? Class A, AB or D? Am I supposed to be impressed? Because I'm not.
---again, i am not sure what site you are reading, cuz the above has nothing to do w/the tic which *i* read.
For instance someone made a key statement above: the Marantz 10B "can be" one of the best tuners out there when aligned correctly, etc. Well of course it can: it has one of the biggest plates around, the 805 tube, and so by virtue of electric theory it must be one of the most sensitive and widest in audio bandwidth. But not acccording to FM Tuner Info. Not the MR71 either. They found both "flabby" and "grainy". Well... you can pretty much stop right there, can't you? Because either they don't know how to properly align a tuner, they don't know how or when to change a tube, or they're deaf. I'm not a "the-more-expensive-it-is, the better it is" guy, but those two tuners are top notch."
---many many tuna aficionados do not like the 10b. actually, in the tuna world the 10b is a wery polarizing entity. and, i think the tics write-up of the 10b on its site is wery well-balanced, & accurately reflects the diwersity of opinion about this tuna. (in fact, one of the stellar attributes about the tic site, imo, is that it is so balanced in regards to most *every* tuna, giving, whenever possible, counterpoint opinions & other reference sources for those seeking more info.) so, no, i pretty much *cant* stop right there. again, it has me questioning whether or not you are looking at the same tic i am looking at. another point re: the 10b - many tuna & marantz aficionados think that in fact the 20b was the best tuna marantz ever made.
and nowhere on the tic could i find the words flabby or grainy mentioned w/either the 10b or the mr71. mebbe you are referring to someones opinion on the yahoo forum? or another site altogether? and, most (if not all) the time, the state of a tunas refurb/alignment is stated when its being talked about. re: the technical abilities of folks like bob fitzgerald , bill ammons, mike zucarro, mike williams, ken bernacky, ed hanlons secret tech, mark wilson, terry dewick, etc; you will not find better qualified tuna technicians *ANYWHERE*. jus cuz *you* think the 10b & the mr71 are top-notch, doesnt mean that they *are*. mebbe there's a disagreement about them between knowledgable people? mebbe others respect them, but like other tunas more? so this means that they are either poor techs, dont know when to change a tube, or are deaf? and you say the tic is the group that has issues? lol! :>)
One of the reasons I like 6 Moons even though many of their reviewers are about 180 degrees from where I am on the audiophile spectrum is they actually tell you what kind of music they like, the dB level they play it at, and what their favorite components and room treatments are, and how long they have had them. You can kind of relate to someone then, even if you wouldn't want their system. "I put it on my oscilliscope in my basement" and it "sounds good" isn't good enough... ...I mean seriously... ...would you buy a car from a guy who told you he had turned it on and it came on ok, so he's sure it "runs good"? I think not.
---i like 6 moons also. but the: "I put it on my oscilliscope in my basement" and it "sounds good" statement isnt even close to what the fmtunerinfo.com site is all about. not even a little bit close. like i said before, you either didnt look at the site thoroughly (there is a *lot* of info there), or you are looking at some *other* site. because surely you can comprehend what you are reading. you can, cant you? ;~)
ymmv,
doug s.