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The invention of measurements and perception

This is going to be pretty airy-fairy. Sorry.

Let’s talk about how measurements get invented, and how this limits us.

One of the great works of engineering, science, and data is finding signals in the noise. What matters? Why? How much?

My background is in computer science, and a little in electrical engineering. So the question of what to measure to make systems (audio and computer) "better" is always on my mind.

What’s often missing in measurements is "pleasure" or "satisfaction."

I believe in math. I believe in statistics, but I also understand the limitations. That is, we can measure an attribute, like "interrupts per second" or "inflamatory markers" or Total Harmonic Distortion plus noise (THD+N)

However, measuring them, and understanding outcome and desirability are VERY different. Those companies who can do this excel at creating business value. For instance, like it or not, Bose and Harman excel (in their own ways) at finding this out. What some one will pay for, vs. how low a distortion figure is measured is VERY different.

What is my point?

Specs are good, I like specs, I like measurements, and they keep makers from cheating (more or less) but there must be a link between measurements and listener preferences before we can attribute desirability, listener preference, or economic viability.

What is that link? That link is you. That link is you listening in a chair, free of ideas like price, reviews or buzz. That link is you listening for no one but yourself and buying what you want to listen to the most.

E
erik_squires

Showing 8 responses by cleeds

Ag insider logo xs@2x
cleeds
2,065 posts
 
kosst_amojan
Brains are vastly more similar than they are different. It’s the individual’s delusional inventions of self that tend to differ more radically.
Will you please explain this? Are you actually suggesting that most people are delusional?
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cleeds
2,065 posts
 
kosst_amojan
Brains are vastly more similar than they are different. It’s the individual’s delusional inventions of self that tend to differ more radically.
If you truly believe that so many here suffer from delusions - which are indicators of mental illness - but that you somehow have some special clarity into controversies that evade others because of their illness, then I really can't help you at all. Good luck to you.
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cleeds
2,065 posts
 
kosst_amojanIn the strictest scientific sense, there is no such thing as music, or
sound, or color, or hot or cold, or pain or pleasure.
Of course, there absolutely is such a thing as music. And sound, color, and hot and cold can all be measured. (Pain and pleasure can probably also be measured, but I'm less certain of that.) So to assert that there's really no such thing "in the strictest scientific sense" as music doesn't really make any sense. It's just a sophist's claim, and doesn't further science, or the art of music, one bit. 

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cleeds
2,065 posts
 
kosst_amojan
What exactly is the numeric value of blue?
That depends on what shade of blue you're talking about. Any shade of any color can be numerically identified, however. I'm surprised you don't know this, but that reveals why you'd make this absurd, obviously false or misleading claim:
In the strictest scientific sense, there is no such thing as music, or sound, or color, or hot or cold ... ."
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cleeds
2,065 posts
 
kosst_amojan
Then tell me what the actual quantitative value of blue is. Any shade, I don't care ...
You can choose your own shade. Obtain a tristimulus colorimeter, and you can measure the exact shade of any color you choose. It's a science. Of course, you can argue all day long that it isn't a science. You can also continue your argument that in "the strictest scientific sense, there is no such thing as music, or sound ... or hot or cold," but you'd be wrong there, too.
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cleeds
2,065 posts
 
kosst_amojan
I don't understand what it is with you. I think everyone else reading this gets what I'm saying except you and Geoff.
There is nothing "with me." But your claim that, "In the strictest scientific sense, there is no such thing as music, or sound, or color, or hot or cold," is false, as has been shown. Have a nice day.
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cleeds
2,065 posts
 
kosst_amojan
What I mean by "what’s with you" is you repeatedly come at me out of pure ignorance, such as now, or you’re just inventing a circumstance out of thin air to reframe something I’ve said, like you did the last we met on the Tekton thread with your "one complaint" silliness.
I don’t know what you’re talking about. Frankly, you sound paranoid. Your claim that, "In the strictest scientific sense, there is no such thing as music, or sound, or color, or hot or cold," is absurd. Your notion that I suffer from "pure ignorance" for noting that is equally absurd.

You have acquired a cherished religious belief, which is fine. But your fervor is proselytizing it, and insisting that your faith is an Absolute Truth, is where you run into trouble with those who think for themselves.

Beware the audio guru.
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cleeds
2,065 posts
 
kosst_amojan

Clearly we’re able to perceive things that don’t reflect physical phenomenon... Perception, buy nature, doesn’t reflect underlying physical phenomenon. I’m not saying the phenomenon of consciousness and perception cannot be quantified. We haven’t developed the tools, methods, or metrics by which to do it yet. But I’ve got Cleeds up there swearing up and down he CAN do such things, which I think you and I both agree is impossible at this point.
Yes, I will swear up and down that I can accurately measure the temperature of virtually anything on earth. I can scientifically prove there is such a thing as music and with the help of an expert and a spectrophotometer or tristimulus colorimeter, can precisely measure the exact shade of any color you choose. Of course, this conflicts with your closely held religious conviction that you fervently proselytize here:
In the strictest scientific sense, there is no such thing as music, or sound, or color, or hot or cold ...
I can also, scientifically, prove to you that the earth is not flat. It’s very easy to do!
Yet the hand-wringing continues:
This quantification of consciousness is a real problem when it comes to really understanding what all kinds of measurements mean well beyond the characteristics of an amplifier....
It’s a problem for you, and it is of your own creation. But some people enjoy problems, and drama, and preaching to others. So I hope you are having fun!
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