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The nightmare of the cartridge buyer...

I recently completed a several year quest to acquire a new cartridge. This quest was basically a major PITA and a nightmare!

Why? Well let’s take a look at what will be in store for all cartridge buyers’ in the US...and possibly other countries as well..IF they are seeking a top flite cartridge , like I was.

Firstly, and here’s where a big part of the problem lies: You will typically be unable to audition any cartridge under consideration...certainly not in your own home and more often than not, at your dealers either.

Then we have the fact that these products are closely monitored for who and whom can act as a dealer...which is then severally restricted by territory and distribution. We then add that the pricing is very well controlled...CAN WE SAY PRICE FIXING...which in most states is an illegal practice...but seems to be the rule here.


Let’s begin with my story...and then I am hoping that members will chime in here with their thoughts and probably also their own ’horror stories’....

About three years ago, I decided to acquire a cartridge that would replace my aging but still ok Benz Ruby 2...
I wanted a cartridge that would surpass that Benz in most areas...and one that would be priced at about $3-$5K. A lot of money to be spending on this piece of gear...or so I believed.

At the time, I was considering the following models....Benz LPS MR, Koetsu Urushi and Rosewood Platinum and the Lyra Kleos, Delos, a EMT, the Kiseki Purpleheart, Air Tight ( entry level model at the time..cannot remember what it was called) an Ortofon A90--and a Transfiguration Proteus--lastly one of the ZYX models. After some research, i discovered that the Ortofon’s, the Zyx’s and the Transfigurations wouldn’t work with my set up --due to too low an output by the respective cartridges for my all tube phono stage. So this left the Kiseki, the Koetsu’s, the Lyra’s and the Benz’s...and possibly the Air Tight model.

Circumstances changed and my cartridge buying escapade was put on hold...until a few months back. In the few years since my last foray, I find out that Benz have basically gone out of business ( again!!) and so has Transfiguration. Meanwhile, the Van Den Hul line has come into the US again...this time with a new distributor.
The Zyx line has totally been updated and the Lyra line is now more available than before...at least in theory. The Koetsu are now handled by Music Direct...who have essentially doubled the pricing across the board! Oh, i forgot, the Lyra line has increased by about 25% across the board ( i don’t think inflation can account for this!!)
So where to start auditioning --the answer...nowhere!
Instead I am supposed to rely on various dealers enthusiastic recommendation for these products...except for the fact that one dealer tells me that Koetsu’s are the best thing since mothers milk- and the other tells me that Koetsu’s are horrible with all the faults under the sun...( at least the ones that are in my budget..see above!) Can I hear any of these for myself...either in my system, or at the respective dealers...heck NO! ( and don’t think this type of scenario/ behavior isn’t consistent for other brands as well!--irrespective of whether the dealer(s) carries said brand or not!).

Here I am left with the choice of dropping several thousand dollars on a product that a) has no ability to be heard in my own system..therefore having no clue as to the results that I will get, b) has absolutely no return policy c) can be easily damaged by myself or others in the case of incorrect mounting to the tonearm...and lastly...and this is the one that really annoys me the most: I must shop for these products at a very limited amount of vendors who all are naysaying their competitors and acting extremely unprofessionally in the process. ( Do i really have to talk to the prospective rep for the line in order to determine the compatibility of the cartridge under question with my arm, the reasoning behind the asked price, where the dealer is that should be selling me the piece in question ( so as not to cross territorial lines) and on and on!!)

Then we have this little bonbon...The damn Japanese sourced cartridge(s) is available on several Japanese web sites at a price that is usually 50 -60% of the retail price here in the USA!! And that price in Japan is still at FULL RETAIL! ( Yes, I know it cost a ton of money to ship these things from Japan to here ( since they weigh a ton), LOL).

Where does this leave the US consumer in regards to the acquisition of a top flite cartridge...IMO the answer is between a hard place and a rock..You either pay through the nose and get totally ripped off by the likes of Music Direct and the various small independent reps in the US for these cartridges, or you takes your choice and risk buying from a grey market vendor abroad...but at a fraction of the price! BTW, mysteriously most of the top flite Benz cartridges continue to be very available from a vendor in China who seems to have cornered the market?? What’s up with this??

I can go on and about this journey, as I have just began to scratch the top of the heap in this story, but let’s hear from you guys as to your experiences and thoughts.... Was your top flite  cartridge acquisition an equal nightmare, or was it something else?






128x128daveyf

Showing 11 responses by orpheus10

orpheus10
5,988 posts
 

If you are a music lover, it takes years to choose a cartridge because of the many different personalities of cartridges.

Most of the comments seem to indicate there is some kind of absolute value that can be attributed to cartridges that can be measured on an objective scale.

I wouldn't take anyone's word for "their best cartridge"; they are assuming they're ears like my music, or my ears like they're music, or what kind of music you like doesn't matter. However, there is a method of getting good advice from professional reviewers.

Let's say you are interested in "Koetsu Urishi"; the very first thing you do is find reviews of this cartridge where your favorite music is reviewed.


            https://www.cnet.com/news/insanely-great-phono-cartridge-for-well-heeled-audiophiles/



Based on this review, I would buy this cartridge today if it was in my price range; that's because of the music that was reviewed. Naturally I know a whole lot more than that about Koetsu, but when my favorite music is reviewed, I'm positively sure that I'm at the end of the line in my selection. Of course this is after you have taken into consideration all of the other factors necessary.


orpheus10
5,988 posts
 

"SERENDIPITY"; that's my word for the day. It's when you fall down a hill, break your arm, but discover a pot of gold where you fell.

I started with a Grado Platinum, traded up to a Grado Sonata, and immediately broke the stylus, on the brand new cartridge. Left with the option of no cartridge, start that crazy search, or trade up to the Grado Master 2; the choice was a "no brainer"; the broke Sonata was in the mail with a note requesting the Master 2.

Years ago, I heard a Koetsu cause Carmen McRae to appear live in the room; since then I have desired a Koetsu, but the Grado Master 2, is the limit of my budget.

Recently I've discovered I might be where I want to be and don't know it. I have to put on some of Carmen's records, and jog my memory as best I can.

I just left my listening room where I jogged my memory, comparing the Koetsu to my Grado. (don't specifically remember which model Koetsu, but not the most expensive)

First and foremost, you have to consider that the Koetsu was in a "high end salon", and it don't get no better than that; I watched those guys take hours to make minor adjustments.

Carmen was just as present in my listening room as in that high end salon; the difference was that the salon was more "holographic", Carmen was projected farther out into the room.

As I stated, that was in a high end salon, with a lot more than a Koetsu cartridge involved.

Since the major difference could be attributed to the high end salon, and even then, my listening room is a satisfactory second; the direct comparison of Carmen's vocals, are equally present in both cases.

The bottom line for me, is that after reading the posts on this thread, I am no longer lusting for a Koetsu.


    (below is a post from another thread)




Well, I have actually owned both, in fact, I own both now, but the Black needs a retipping.

I have the previous version of the Statement (the 2.5k one not the 3k one) and I will say that it actually sounds in the same realm as the Koetsu house sound, it is closer to that house sound than lower Grados. The Koetsu, being an MC, has a lovely midrange but its highs are sometimes etched out, not as natural as they should be (higher models of Koetsus improve this as well as providing more extension).

The Grado has a sublime midrange and a top end that is never harsh, but is extended. The bass is generous and tight, never out of proportion with the other frequencies.

I don't have much experience with carts, but from what I have heard the Grado is the best. It is also the most expensive I've had in my setup, 1k more than the Black.

Price isn't everything but if I were to have 1600 and I could buy the Statement or the Black, I would go Statement.

orpheus10
5,988 posts
 

Dave, did you say you ended up with the Koetsu; that's resolving and musical as well; definitely not hyper resolving as to be lean.

Different words but arrived at the same destination.
orpheus10
5,988 posts
 

People on this forum are the most uninformed, self centered people I have ever encountered as a group. Evidently setting up a high end turntable, buying, and installing a cartridge requires more attention than I realized.

If demand was ruled by desire, and the ability to purchase high end audio, there would be very little decline. For a multiplicity of reasons, people can no longer afford high end audio.



        https://hometheaterhifi.com/editorial/decline-high-end-audio-sales-new-outlook/
orpheus10
5,988 posts
 

Tang, in addition to the economics that were pointed out in the article, there are these;


https://wealthisbeingtranfered.wordpress.com/2012/06/12/wealth-is-being-transferred-from-us-to-them/

Markets were manipulated with corporate money, under the direction of presidential administrations.

Those who know are afraid to speak, and those who speak pay a price.

The CFTC, the agency that has protected us from commodity market manipulation over the years, could not protect us from our own government in the White House. Those excessively high prices for food and gasoline decimated the lower middle class, and it's rippling up to the small business class presently.

When you add up all the economic calamities that affected millions of people all over this country, you can see how they resulted in citizens having less money.

In regard to Asia, the rich got richer, the same as here, but here there was a smaller percent that got richer, but they got incredibly richer, resulting in the "high high high end".



orpheus10
5,988 posts
 

Although the McIntosh MC275 costs $6,500. it hasn't gone up relatively in price. Some well known brands are shooting for the rich market, because they have increased prices out of all reason, where people have more money than they know how to spend; nice work if you can get it.
orpheus10
5,988 posts
 

Dave I take just the opposite stance as you took below; almost all of the cartridges recommended on this forum are fast and resolving, but not "musical" enough for me; in other words, the favored cartridges sound hard and lean to my ears.

"I personally believe that a buyer looking for a resolved and fast cartridge would be in for a shock....just based on the glowing Hyperbole filled reviews."


orpheus10
5,988 posts
 

Dave, the only way I discovered the cartridge I bought was lean and hyper resolving was to purchase it. Almost everybody recommended it.  One man's lean, is another man's "fast" and resolving.

Since it was obviously a good cartridge, it took a long time for me to come to the conclusion that it wasn't the cartridge for me.

Long term critical listening to your favorite music is the only way to determine whether or not the cartridge is for you. This is such a difficult process when taken seriously, that it has to take more time than dealers would allow.

While you can evaluate a pre-amp, or amp in short order, not so with a cartridge; that takes more time.
orpheus10
5,988 posts
 

I have a curiosity that I hope you will engage me in. I am happier than a hog in slop with my cartridge.(that's the cleanest euphemism I could think of at the moment, you substitute your own)

Since we all consider the cartridge the most single important piece in an analog rig, I'm curious as to why you chose your favorite cartridge, what is your favorite cartridge, and why you think it's so special?

My cartridge is the Grado Master 2. Since I began this hobby in 1970, I've experienced a lot of cartridges; non more expensive than my present cartridge. This cartridge seems to emphasize all of my music, and make it more musical; comparing to colors; the reds are redder, the blues bluer, the yellows are ....; you get my drift; I'm a listener not a critic, or a reviewer.

Could you describe what makes your cartridge so special, and why you chose it.



orpheus10
5,988 posts
 

Dave, I'm looking for what cartridge you eventually decided on, and I can't find it; could you tell us?
orpheus10
5,988 posts
 


"No knowledge/wisdom to gain from members."


Out of all the reading I've done, I don't believe I've gained any knowledge; what truth that has been revealed amounts to "So what"; that's the way the game is played, run with the big dogs or stay at home.
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