Unsound:
I have both CS6s and CS2.4s and run both pairs with tube amps; for the the 2.4s, a Manley Stingray II. Sounds great, and, in my room, I am not power limited in the least.
Cheers
Steve |
I think Jim Thiel appreciated the work of Villchur and Kloss decades ago and felt the acoustic suspension (sealed box) design was the most accurate in reproduction of low frequencies. The passive radiator was a sort of compromise between a port and a sealed box, utilizing the back wave of the woofer to redirect that energy forward of the baffle. |
Let’s face it, Thiel is gone. I am fortunate to own and enjoy CS6 and CS2.4 models and I will treasure these fine instruments for a very long time. What irritates me is that the company couldn’t, or wouldn’t, even continue manufacturing the line as Jim left it. At least for 1, 2, 3 and 7 series.
Somehow, that doesn’t seem right, but the bean counters must have concluded there was little money in it. Those designs alone are still valued and enjoyed. Perhaps when they are so rare that the price of pre-owned reach MFSL will they restart production? |
@pops
+1 on the CS6s. I'm going on 13 years with my pair and they never fail to satisfy. I swear bass extension keeps improving year after year. Mine are Amberwood. |
@Rob: Hey are you in Eugene? Last year I moved to S. Oregon but lived in Eugene for many years and HOR is one of two finest stores.
And, yes, I am a huge Rush fan. |
Beetle: I had Vandersteen 2Ce Sigs v1 and, over time, felt they were not dynamic enough so I traded them for CS2.4s that are a significant improvement in that area. Extended highs were also notable in the 2.4s vs the 2s. But, my CS6s outshine my 2.4s top to bottom and are still may favorite speaker. |
The people who worked at Thiel while Jim was alive understand the design process and what went into classic Thiel products. If only Kathy Gornik bought it back and hired back those same people, perhaps the mantle could be carried forward. In the meantime I will treat my 6s and 2.4s with loving care in the hope that I can make them last for the remainder of my life.
Also, bought an SS2 with dedicated crossover for the 6s about 14 years ago. I could never get it to integrate or phase properly despite trying every setting combination under the sun; I eventually sold it because the 6s sounded much better without it. |
Dave: Get those 2.4s! You won't regret it. |
One of the biggest challenges to making 1st order crossover-appropriate speakers is that the drivers need to have a considerably wider bandwidth than those typically used in higher order designs. Not any old driver will do. These are much more expensive to design, manufacture and test, and Jim worked tirelessly on improving them. Tom can comment here but from interviews I’ve read with Jim, and some of the classic Thiel product literature I still have, much effort went into those Thiel drivers, and some were originally outsourced. The CS6 was the first model that contained drivers all made in house by Thiel.
My first pair were CS7s and, stupidly, I sold them for a pair of Dynaudio Contour 2.0, thinking I was going to "downsize;" they too used 1st order crossovers but were not time/phase coherent. After less than a year, I so missed the Thiels that I traded the Dynaudios for a pair of CS6s, and later bought a pair of CS2.4s for a second system. I’m trying to find a home for the CS6s now that my space is smaller and the CS2.4s are my main speakers.
Andy: congrats on your new Thiels. Enjoy them and let me know if you have any questions about set up, placement, etc. When the imaging is locked in you will know it.
Steve |
Anyone interested in a near mint pair of amberwood CS6s? If so let me know and I'll post the ad.
I have 2.4s and the 6s are too large for my room since I moved a little over a year ago. Time for them to have a good home elsewhere. |
The maximum wattage that can be produced by a 120 VAC, 15 ampere supply, depending on the amp's efficiency, is about 1500 watts. |
One thing I hope we can all agree on is that live music, or any live sound for that matter, is, by definition, phase-time correct. From the moment we try to capture that music or those sounds on any recorded medium, phase-time takes a hit, if ever so slightly. Those speaker designers who knew, from both an intuitive and engineering standpoint, that it mattered by doing the least amount of harm to an already compromised signal, were on the track for phase-time accurate, in-home music reproduction. As I’ve written several times here in other threads, our auditory system evolved to be acute in its time-domain sensitivity purely for reasons of survival. Studies have been performed, but we really don’t know the absolute time-resolution limits for directional cues resulting from differential arrival times between our two ears. And, it turns out, pressure receptors in our skin have some ability to detect these time domain elements as well; some directional perception comes not only from our ears. From what I’ve read in the peer-reviewed literature, the human ear can tell the direction of a 90 degree side-presented, 1500 Hz pulse of 660 microseconds (or 0.660 milliseconds). Most speakers cannot even accurately resolve that timeframe when subjected to step-response measurements; those that can are phase-time correct. This is a clear case where objective design, measurements and bioacoustic science merge to create a subjective advantage.
About 15 years ago, when downsizing my system from CS7.0 (which I loved!) to go to a pair of Dynaudio speakers, that experiment lasted less than a year before I purchased a new pair of CS6s. I have now found a home for these due to yet again more downsizing, but my 2.4s are indeed keepers.
|
Yes!!!
Two SVS SB2000 subs placed just inside the 2.4s, lined in from PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC, built-in crossovers on subs set to ~60 Hz, phase set at 12 o'clock, volume at 12 0'clock, and running the 2.4s at full bandwidth via balanced ICs to a pair of Stellar M700s with Audioquest CV8 speaker cables.
Amazing! |
As some may recall, I was outspoken and against Class D amps for many years, having heard only a pair of Rotel monoblocks at a local dealer about 13 years ago. My position was that there was no way a switching design could outperform Class A and A/B designs due to all that high frequency noise. Fast forward to late 2018...
I have owned amps (integrated, stereo and monoblocks) by conrad johnson (tubed and solid state), Parasound, Bryston, Krell, Musical Fidelity, Denon, Marantz, NAD and most recently, Manley Labs. After reading about PS Audio’s Stellar line, and in need of a dedicated preamp as I was downsizing, I decided to take them up on their trade-in and home trial offer and I am so very glad I did. The M700s "woke" up my Thiels in a way no other amps ever have. I know, that’s quite a statement, but I have had several of my audio buds come over for a listen. They were all familiar with my other amps through my Thiels. All said by far the best they’d heard. It’s not so much the power and oomph they provide, indeed they’ve got that, and certainly the Krell FPB 400cx had it, but it’s the quality of the music they produce. I don’t listen loudly anymore, typically peaking in the low 80s SPL by my ratshack meter. These sound like tubes, and I know what tubes sound like, but they are also very micro and macro dynamically revealing, very sweet once broken in, and best of all, I have never heard so much front to back and left/right resolution. I’m also a musician, and I have never heard in any of my systems, acoustic guitar that sounds like it’s in the room like that. If this is a good as it gets from here until the end, I’m totally satisified. There is zero noise, even with my ear up to the tweeters at a level that would be deafening. By far the highest value purchase I’ve ever made. Same with the Gain Cell DAC preamp. PS Audio absolutely rocks! Anyone who is in the market for a preamp/DAC, stereo amp or monoblocks really should consider their home trial offer. I’ll bet VERY few get sent back. |
Thiels and Vandrsteens, having owned a few models from both manufacturers, sound similar in tonality, but the main difference in my experience is that Thiels are more dynamic and forceful. Perhaps they are less compressed? Vandersteens are more polite. Both are worth owning; they are the only two speakers I've ever been happy with. Currently, I own a pair of 1Cs and CS 2.4s. The 2.4s are significantly the better of the two. Previous models owned include 2CE Sigs and CS7s and CS6s. |
