Thiel Owners

"Audio Research preamps ( slightly bleached tone to me)"

That is always how Audio Research amps sound to me.  From the day I first heard them in the 90's to even today (my pal uses Audio Research amps).  There's just this sort of bleached sound - which in my mind invokes "gray" - that makes me not care to sit in front of the speakers for too long.

At one time my friend was testing an amp - I forget if it was solid state, or maybe it was his Audio Research, and I brought over my CJ Premier 12 amps to try in his system.  As soon as they went in and we started the same song, we looked at each other like "aaah...THIS is the experience that keeps our butts planted in the seat."  Just so damned musical and rich.

I have the Premier 16LS2 pre-amp, for maybe a couple years now.  It sounds gorgeous - super clear, very low noise floor, tons of detail and spaciousness, and though fairly neutral just enough of that CJ magic glow.  My one criticism would be it lacks a bit of the density and balls of my other tube preamp (locally made) but the other pre-amp doesn't have the detail and finesse of the CJ.

Wow prof, "Audio Research preamps (slightly bleached tone to me)".

To me, bleached means smeared with attenuation of dynamics. If anything, my AR Ref system tends to exaggerate details and dynamics, compared to live music. I just assumed that it was the recording process and my Thiel CS3.6s, but maybe it is simply the synergy between the components. Maybe I just lucked into the right combination.

Unfortunately, I have limited ability to listen to real world setups and my only comparisons comes from my few visits to audio shops while traveling, reading Stereophile and forums like this. I really need some local friends that have my same audio tastes. Jafant, we need to form an Alabama audiophile society!

jonandfamily,

My own subjective impressions, especially of amplifiers, aren't much use to other people I think.  We all have different tastes, different hearing, different criteria; what I hear as uninvolving will be someone else's musical nirvana. 

And by "bleached" I'm talking of timbral or tonal color, nothing to do with dynamics.  I tend to sort of see colors when listening to sound (and clearly so do some other people, which is why lots of audiophiles refer to colors in describing sound).  When I listen to my acoustic guitar I always "hear" a golden sparkly tone.  I'd take that recording around to various systems and speakers: from most of them, I don't hear that tone.  It's more silver/gray.  And that's my main complaint with most systems: they sound "bleached" of tonal color, which is what I always perceived whenever I was able to compare Audio Research amps with, say CJ amps, over the years (and that's only a few times, really).

That doesn't mean someone else will hear the same thing.  Although...it was interesting to see it described that way here, and I have seen the Audio Research sound described similarly over the years.  Just like the CJ sound is often described as "golden."

My pal loves his Audio Research amp - had it forever, doesn't want to part with it.

Gents:

I guess I am the bad boy describing the ARC preamp

" slightly bleached tone"

I think Prof & I hear the same way from his description's trying to clarify 

the ARC has oodles of detail & soundstage, but TONE is gray or bleached to me ,as Prof said, too

The ET3 has a rounder, more fullly colored tone than ARC......

I have a sub connected, too & the adjustment in the 100-300 hz range really makes tones go thick, thin, boom, blurry, etc.       You have to adjust with precision of surgeon....

When you get it right, as local audio guys have taught me, tone is very good & preamp shines thru

I suspect the tube is what makes the difference ( 6h30?) for etched/bleach/grayness

Prof,  No pictures of your system?

what " stuff" do you have for components

jeff

jeff,

Sorry, no system pictures. I don’t know if I’ll ever get around to that. (I think the pictures would look cool because I designed my room carefully/aesthetically for home theater and two channel, while having to be a "nice" looking room since it’s our living room on the main floor. I used to have my system photos on imageshack, but they went to a paid model and took them down).


But since I don’t have a sytem page, I may as well take this moment to list my audio gear.

Currently, my stuff is:

Thiel 3.7 speakers.

I’ll be picking up the pair of Thiel 2.7 speakers I bought sometime in the next week or two.

Other speakers:
- MBL 121 radialstrahler omni directional monitors.
- Waveform Mach MC monitors (egg shaped).
- Spendor 3/5s
- Old Thiel 02 speakers (can’t bring myself to get rid of them - they re-ignited my hi-fi passion).
- Just sold a pair of Harbeth Super HL5 plus speakers I was testing out.

For me it’s "tone first" when buying a speaker. I have to hear that organic warmth in tone - woody guitar body, sparkling strings, golden brass...as wide a rainbow as tonal colors as I can get (the MBLs are the champs here, but limited in extension).

The speakers have to soundstage well because that’s one of the things that makes it intriguing to bet my butt in the sofa listening to the system.
(Though I have zero interest in a system that soundstages fantastically, but is tonally boring or off-putting).

I want an image density and projection as well, giving some dynamic life, which the Thiel brand excels at.

Amplification:
Conrad Johnson Premier 12 monoblocks, 140W/side. Currently with the CJ advised Tungsol 6550 tubes (I’m not a tube roller...the amp sounds superb with them and I’ve got enough audio stuff to worry about).

Pre-amp: CJ Premier 16LS2.
Also have a locally built tube pre-amp which absolutely excels like nothing else in providing image density and a realistic "they are there" solidity. The CJ preamp is more transparent and better delineates different instrumental timbre, so I go back and forth.

I have a prized re-furbished Eico HF 81 14W integrated amp which is an absolute marvel of musicality. It’s stunning to hear that amp drive the big Thiels!

Dac: still have my old Benchmark Dac 1. I’ll be upgrading soon.
Usually streaming ripped CDs from itunes (god I hate itunes, I’ll be changing this soon).

Just got back into vinyl:

I have a micro seiki turntable and some nice cartridges (so I’m told) donated by my father-in-law, with a cheap Rotel phono stage. Sounds sublime, but obviously a path for future upgrades.

Cables: I don’t care about hi end cables. I have robust 10awg Belden speaker cable (I have a long cable run to the speakers), and my interconnects are a mishmash of kimber PBJ, low end and expensive high end cast offs from audiophile buddies who own too much cable. I couldn’t even tell you what some of them are. But they work :-)