Thoughts on the First Watt SIT Amps


Has anyone bought the First Watt SIT amp (either model)? If so, tell us your thoughts compared to previous amps you've had.
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Showing 12 responses by 213cobra

I'll say at the outset that I do not think the Pass 30.5 mates well to Zu speakers, so having heard both, I think the SIT amp will be a clear improvement.

The SIT amp is very smooth and articulate. It is among the two or three most natural solid state amps available at any price; and to put it another way it is one of the two or three least objectionable solid state amps you can buy. Within its power limits, it's listenable and satisfying -- if you've never had a better tube amp. Even on Zu at 101db/w/m, the amp's dynamic compression is evident at high but not deafening SPL. Its primary deficiency compared to a range of good tube amps is that while the transient events are defined, impactful and clear, decay is over-damped. You don't get "the whole note," compared to more complete amplifiers. But the SIT amp does have much more tonal depth natural space than the XA30.5 (which is exceedingly clean in its own right).

That's my view of it. If I were committed to solid state for Druids, SIT and Lavardin would probably be my contending choices.

Phil
I heard the SIT in a friend's system I know well, on the same speakers as mine -- Zu Definition IV. I gave it every benefit of doubt and *wanted* to like it more than I do. It is very good solid state. However, the SIT amp cannot, will not, does not equal the tonal integrity, harmonic completeness, natural note decay and depth of nuance that well-implemented SET topology does. There are SET amps that I wouldn't buy which the SIT amp can beat, but those amps are irrelevant. The SIT amp won't satisfy someone already accustomed to SET at the level of implementation achieved in the Frankenstein, nor any SET amp Audion makes, for example.

It really isn't persuasive to me what anyone at 6Moons thinks. No one there has more listening experience than I do, so I have no particular reason to defer to Ebaen for time spent in audio nor range of gear. On the other hand everyone has different experience regardless of cumulative time in the pursuit, and 6Moons generally seeks musicality. If SIT works for him, fine. It falls considerably short for me. If for some reason I absolutely had to abandon tubes for transistors, then SIT is one of two or three next best alternatives. But I'm not abandoning SET nor tubes. Even a properly re-tubed pair of Quad II amps (push-pull, remember) with healthy capacitors will beat SIT in every musically-significant way except deep bass definition.

Phil
Let me add something about the SIT amps. I listened to the SIT-2 stereo amp. When asked, I advised the gentleman who ordered it to instead buy a pair of SIT-1 monoblocks. He was going to spend that much on a different amp anyway, so why not? I always endorse monoblocks over same-design stereo, but an interesting thing happened. The dealer insisted that there's "no difference" between SIT-2 and SIT-1, so "save the money and get SIT-2." So that's what my friend auditioned and what I heard at some length.

Now, I know in my bones that SIT-1 will sound different and I think very likely it will sound better even though the monoblocks output the same power per channel. For one thing, separate power supplies on the same circuit virtually always sound better and certainly sound different in discernible ways. But additionally, the SIT-1 has a user-adjustable bias control.Sure, there's a reference point on the meters for optimal bias, but you're free to shade it + or - the reference setting. I've *never* heard an amp that doesn't sound variable according to whether its bias is shaded hot or cold, off center. Sometimes the differences can be quite dramatic, depending how far out of "normal" you change bias and trade device longevity and stability for sonic bliss.

I know from some third party conversations and from what can be inferred thus far in his published review, that Srajan at 6Moons believes SIT-1 has sound possibilities SIT-2 can't equal. So while I'll say that I heard nothing in the SIT-2 amp to suggest that this solid state device can fully deliver the organic life that quality SET can, it's reasonable to surmise that SIT-1 can get substantially closer, especially if associated gear is chosen carefully.

Phil
Charles,

He did not keep the SIT-2 beyond the agreed trial, due to the traits I noted. He returned to tube amplification. I recall his comment being, "I'm done with solid state."

Phil
I'm going to make it a point to hear the SIT-1 monoblocks with a DHT preamp in front of it. I have listened to DHT preamps and have heard the SIT-2, but have not heard the two sequenced together. I'll give Srajan benefit of doubt, and I do believe the adjustable bias monoblocks will get closer to being musically convincing than the SIT-2 regardless of what's in front of it.

At the moment I have no reason to believe that putting a DHT preamp in front of the SIT will correct truncated note decay, nor the dynamic compression due to limited power and headroom. I agree the SIT amp has better bass control than any SET amp I can think of. I don't agree that it meaningfully outresolves every SET amp (though certainly many or even most), at least not in any way consistent with how instruments actually sound instead of how they sound close-mic'd and hot in the mix. But there's another thing: It's not just ears and mind but the body. There is a state of engagement, involvement -- full-body response, that I reliably experience listening to live performance. I have never had the identical full body response to recorded music played through transistor amplification nor through any push-pull vacuum tube amplifier. Nor, of course, to live music heard exclusively through electronic processing and conventional amplification. I did not have it with the SIT-2 either. The sound was "over there." I have the same full-body response listening to recorded music that I can have with a live orchestra, for example, only with a small range of exceptional SET amplification and crossoverless speakers. It's not "similar." It's the same organic response. I don't even have to analyze what I'm hearing. I feel it, in binary fashion. It's there or it's not. It's always been that way for me. Many times when I have noticed a small change in a sound system, it's because of what I felt before hearing something I can immediately pinpoint. Give me a solid state amp that can induce the same full-body engagement in recorded playback that I can get with certain SET aplification or upon hearing it live, and I'll buy it.

I am intrinsically interested in hearing proof that the SIT devices can compete with high-grade SET implementations. I want Nelson Pass' adventurism to pay off. He's always pushing in the right direction for the right reasons. I'd like an electrically more efficient and consistent successor to a high-heat triode tube if the sound warrants. Put another way, I am predisposed to like the SIT amps but the actual sound hasn't moved me yet. It's closer than other solid state options offered so far so I'll give it every chance to convince me.

Phil
Charles - I'm in Los Angeles. Put your Coincident under your arm and saddle up. Will update the thread when I eventually arrange this.

Phil
Jcote,

Room for anything. The hard part is getting a pair of SIT-1 and a DHT preamp in my house at the same time. Working on it, and will come back to let you know.

Phil
>>Anyway, no I do not think the SIT amp was over damped, but remember I was coming from the First Watt M2 to the SIT.<<

Adjacent to the FW M2, which is very good SS in its own right, the SIT-2 sounds liquid and lingering by comparison. So from that perspective of amps sequence I fully understand Brawny's view of it.

Phil
An update on my experience with the First Watt SIT:

I had an opportunity over the weekend to hear a pair of SIT-1 mono amps in a system separate from the one in which I heard the SIT-2, but sharing some characteristics.

Both systems are in Rives-treated rooms and both are built around Zu speakers. The more completely Rives-treated room housed a system built around Zu Dominance loudspeakers. The other room had a system built around Zu Definition Mk 4 loudspeakers. I heard the SIT-2 in the Definitions system, and the SIT-1 in the Domance system. Both systems used digital sources, Meridian with Dominance and Berkeley with Definitions. I'll say that the DACs share essential traits of very clean presentation, quiet noise floor and tonal asceticism. The Meridian/Dominance system used a Pass preamp. The Berkeley/Definition system used a McIntosh C2300 preamp.

For context, let me say a few things about the speakers. Dominance is easily the finest speaker I've heard by any maker, under any circumstances in my entire audio life. It possesses the essential Zu qualities of crossoverless behavioral unity, frequency neutrality, tone density, convincing spatial dimensioning, revealing resolution, dynamic agility, scalar integrity, amp friendliness and easy drive -- all honed to an extreme level of aural competence. Dominance does more right in the presentation of music than any speaker I know of. It demolishes the pretense of the industry's most egregiously expensive efforts. That said, Definition 4 clearly inherited the essence of Dominance and sounds amazingly similar within its scalar limits, given Definition is about 1/4th the price. Where Dominance vaults beyond Definition 4 is in focus and precision of the spatial presentation (including the solidity of the aural holographic illusion), complete absence of cabinet talk, greater dynamic accommodation before congestion, even more authority and agility to the bottom end, generally even less coloration and I believe Dominance is a bit more efficient. Take everything good about Definition 4 and improve it linearly, then add new capabilities in focus, burstiness and (despite more drivers) behavioral unity. Let me put a finer point on it: Dominance is the first and only loudspeaker I've ever heard that impresses me as a lifetime purchase. Buy them; install them; you're done. So, did I hear the SIT-2 through better speakers and into a more corrected room? Yes. But the two systems had similar basic properties that were useful for rough and impressionistic evaluation of the two SIT amps.

Having heard both, I stand by my earlier expectation (and general rule) that when the same topology is implemented as stereo or mono amps, the monoblocks will be better, if you can afford the difference. In this case, SIT-1 monoblocks are $10,000/pr., against $5,000 for the stereo amp. In this case, the Dominance system is in a somewhat over-damped room, whereas the Definitions system is in a room that has a lighter Rives treatment, eats bass, but is still on the lively side elsewhere. With only 10w per channel available from either SIT amp, the dual power supplies give the SIT-1 perceptibly more dynamic ease, especially when crescendo dynamics hit both channels at once. For me, this is valuable, especially with low-power amplifiers. But this is the minor improvement of SIT-1 over SIT-2.

Where SIT-2 left me disappointed by the way it tamps down the finish of a note compared to a well-designed SET amp, SIT-1 has a variable that lets you get closer to genuine SET musicality. The SIT-1 manual bias control introduces a measure of tunability to the amp's musicality that drives differences more than subtle and less than stark. The basic traits of the SIT prevail: clean, absence of grain and grit, very good tone for solid state, deep and agile bass, effective aural neutrality. But you can favor 2nd order harmonics, roundness and warmth, or push the sound in the direction of pentode-like definition with the speed of simple circuits....or anything in between. The perception of tube-like note decay is variable too, and while getting the "whole note" isn't as complete an experience as with a well-implemented SET circuit, you can get appreciably closer than with SIT-2 and its static configuration. Ironically, the owner of the amps and I preferred mildly-different settings, but both were within the same realm of essential rightness. He owns solid state but preferred his bias controls set for warmth and 2nd order harmonic profile; I own fast and transparent SET but preferred the bias controls set for more elevated definition while keeping good tone. Within its dynamic limits, the SIT-1, in a stereo pair, is the best communicator of music through solid state amplification I've heard, and you get some latitude for how much you want it to emulate a clean and ascetic Pass SS amp, for example, or towards the amber tint of the most romantic triodes. SIT-1 is never going to sound less than highly credible, however you voice it. But you are voicing it regardless where you prefer the bias control be set. It wold further benefit in this system, from a more expressive preamp.

I wouldn't give up my Audion SET amps for a pair of SIT-1s. But for someone (like the owner) who is acutely bothered by the slightly higher noise floor of SET or has other reasons to eschew vacuum tube amplification of any topology yet appreciates tube sound for its convincing musicality, SIT-1 allows you to get closer than does SIT-2, and by a margin that I consider significant enough to say that I hear SIT-1 as being a higher value point at $10,000 than SIT-2 is at $5,000. Put another way, I would not own SIT-2, but if I didn't already have excellent SET amps, SIT-1 would be satisfying. I can only say that about the McIntosh MC1.2kw (specifically), the Larvardin, and now this SIT-1 -- and it's the SIT-1 that sounds tonally most authentic among these. Its major weakness is its power limit. Neither SIT amp delivers the sense of headroom and grace near clipping that a good tube amp does. I'd love to hear a parallel single-ended SIT amp.

I still want to hear SIT-1s driven by a DHT preamp, to hear whether Srajan's postulate about the leap in results is true for me. But this was one step further in gaining experience with these amps.

One more thing: the Dominance system I listened to also had a QOL processor connected. I switched it out (bypass) for all of my evaluations of the amplifiers and speakers but did some comparative listening, QOL engaged and disengaged. Spatially, the QOL is entertaining. In that respect it seemed like a vastly-refined implementation of the early SRS outboard processors. It expanded the soundstage width only marginally, but it tended to expand the spaces between instruments/performers within the soundstage, and anything away from the center was pushed further away from the center and toward the soundstage perimeter. The presentation of holographic depth was enhanced but not always realistically. The spatial effects would be thoroughly entertaining with movies. It was expansively entertaining with music but not in a way that impressed me as more realistic. With the QOL switched in, I thought the sound became tonally less authentic though dynamically more exciting. Any voice sounded tonally more human with QOL out than in. Leading trainsients of notes and percussive events are definitely enhanced in positive ways. The dynamic clarity and transient precision are improved but the downside is that the balance of attack v. decay is altered from what sounds most authentic, at least to me. In nearly three hours of listening, there wasn't any music that the QOL made sound more authentic to me, but it was consistently able to make any disc sound more exciting, whether the "excitement" was in the original recording or not. I do agree it seems to recover some definitional information that sounds like it's not artificially derived. If that quality could be better isolated from the less natural spatial warps and disturbances to the attack/decay balance, it might prove aurally valuable. But not yet, for me. It has the trait, upon immediate swithover from engaged to disengaged, to make make either one sound incorrect for a lingering moment. But lingering always led me back to having QOL out of the circuit. Others may have a different preference. Hearing the QOL makes it obvious why it's controversial.

Phil
>>Did any of the SIT amps exhibit any noise or crackling sounds that you could hear through the loudspeakers? <<

Both SIT-2 and SIT-1s were dead-quiet in any practical snese, in my two encounters with them.

Phil
>>...would you say the SIT-1 is'more'resolved, nuance,faster and extended<<

Audion amps, whether SET or Push-Pull have a uniquely fast and transparent aural fingerprint, so I don't hear the SIT-1 as "faster" than the amps I prefer. In fact, in some respects I'd say a conventional Pass transistor amp sounds a bit faster than does the SIT. I also don't hear it as able to reveal more nuance nor is it more resolved. As to the latter, let me say that I don't hear the Audion SET amps leaving anything out that I can otherwise hear through the SIT-1. But the presentation of resolution is asserted more by the start of the note than the finish, if you understand my meaning. The SET amps lead a little more softly and finish with more "glow" or decay. But the momentary event is fully present through either amp. Will some people *perceive* the slightly softer leading edge of SET as less resolved than the SIT solid state amp? Maybe, and I can understand why. But that's not how I would rank the two different presentations.

As for extension, in the room I listened in, with recordings I am familiar with on my own systems, I did not hear deeper bass information with the SIT-1 (nor the SIT-2) than with SET, but the definition and agility of the sub 100Hz region is superior on the SIT amp -- either one of them. I'll venture that Dominance's extra measure of dynamic ease over Definitions is also apparent in the downfiring sub, by a discernible margin. So in a larger room with much more power, that speaker can deliver bass authority that might be mistaken for more "range," but where it might dig deeper I think that's relevant on very few recordings. As for the SIT amps, I haven't heard deeper-than-SET in either case, but the SIT amps reproduce bass more precisely, which is good.

On the top end, the Radian 850 is exceedlingly resolved and smooth at the same time, but it is not a hyper-extended tweeter for the ultra-sonic obsessives. Both the Audion SET amps and the SIT amps have top end response exceeding the flat response of the tweeter. Again, the presentation of top end information is different, but the presence of it is the same. I have this debate all the time with people who believe they like p-p tube or ss amps over good SET. With the Audion amps, all the information is present on top, that you get from the SIT (either one) but the sonic profile is somewhat different.

Where things get dicey from a value standpoint is: would I choose a single-ended SIT amp with tunable bias over a very simple-circuit push-pull tube amp like a Quad II Classic or Quad II-Forty, at $3k - $4k for the tubes and $10k for the SIT monoblocks? I would definitely pick the Quads over the SIT-2. The SIT-1 is a tougher call if cost is discounted and only sound is the selector. SIT-1 has the tonal unity of SET, which even the simplest p-p can't quite duplicate, but the simple Quads do better on dynamic heft and deliver the whole note with a minimum of crossover notch grunge. Not so with more complicated and massed-push-pull mad-power tube amps. With efficient speakers, I'd take SIT-1 monoblocks over any modern overwrought push-pull tube amp featuring more than one pair of tetrode or pentode tubes per channel.

Phil
The SIT-1 runs pretty hot for a solid state amp. Sort of like the old Bedini Class A amps did. SIT-2 runs quite warm too. These are definitely NOT cool-running boxes like Class D amps are. On the other hand, I don't think this is at all pertinent to season. No reason not to run the same gear year round.

Phil