blueranger ambrosia maple is almost always soft maple (Red or silver). I have never seen hard maple with Ambrosia beetle damage before, only Red Maple. I have sold hardwood lumber since 2000, but I guess anything is possible in mother nature.
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dwette
with that Janka scale rating it would be hard maple. I sell hardwood lumber and was just curious what the preferred type seemed to be. Thanks for the input. |
I use this block ontop of Mapleshade Isoblocks: https://www.butcherblock.com/product/18-x-12-x-3-cutting-board/ I have two turntables, a Mofi StudioDeck that features sprung-loaded feet and a Triangle Art Concerto with upgraded platter; the platter is much more massive than the standard model platter and the base+platter easily weighs 40 lbs. The MoFi seemed to like being on the cutting board with the Mapleshade Isoblocks isolating it from the rack. It didn’t seem to like Rollerblocks under the cutting board and it hated having Isoblocks under the turntable’s spring feet. I assumed the feet were designed to work with a certain amount of feedback from the surface they sit on. The Triangle Art gear have little rubber nub feet. I can’t say that being on vs being off the board makes any difference but I haven’t tested this extensively since moving it around is a pain in the butt. I’m torn between putting the large TA speed controller box on the board or off -- currently its on. |
I googled Mapleshade and they use ambrosia maple which is any maple that has been infested with the ambrosia beetle. I don't know what exactly the type of maple they use and maples on the Janka scale vary quite a bit. So just guessing which maple, just look at what type of maple grows in Penn Amish country. |
I got my butcher block from Butcher Block Acoustics the other day. It took about 6 weeks because I had mine done at a custom size to fit my Solidsteel WS-5 wall shelf. It came with cork/rubber pads for feet, which I am using to support the block on the shelf. For the turntable I have changed out the spikes on the feet for a set of isoAcoustics Gaia III feet (normally used for speakers, and I have the Gaia II on my Dyn C2s). It looks and works great. I am going to try out some HRS Nimbus pucks instead of the provided cork/rubber feet to see if that makes a difference. https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4864/45893515952_dc0f5bece2_c.jpg |
I ended up ordering mine from Bucther Block Acoustics in maple this weekend. I am getting the end-grain version in a custom size (19.5 x 16.25 x 3) to fit my SolidSteel WS-5 wall shelf as direct replacement for the MDF board it comes with. They say it should be about 6 weeks for production. They were going to quote one in cherry to match my furniture, but I’m changing the latter next year anyway, when I get a Naim Fraim, which I will do with either black or ash shelves. |
@boxer12, The response you received makes a lot of sense. However, one person’s "warmth" could be another person’s "veiled or muffled" sound. It comes down to semantics there. In my years of experimenting with various isolation devices and platforms, I’d say that response makes perfect sense. What one should be aware of however is, not using or expecting the maple to be the ultimate problem solvers for any prior/ongoing vibration problems from their rack/stand etc. Boxer, the way you expressed the differences in your system gels with mine, but I might have said "increased transparency". Again, semantics. |
So I asked this question to "Butcher Block Acoustics" & he stated the softer the wood the warmer the sound.
I'm currently using walnut for my preamp base.
Can't say I've done any "A" / "B" type testing with maple, but it is better in my system than the granite I was using before. It may be a bit warmer, but where it excels is soundstage width, depth, & definition. |
Anyone have thoughts on using maple vs cherry vs walnut for a butcher block base? Maple is harder than the other two (Janka scale for maple 1450, walnut 1010, cherry 950). Cherry would match my system the best. I guess my real question is how important is the relative hardness of maple, or does one just begin to arrive at dimishing returns for a certain hardness? I'm going to put a 40 lb. unsprung TT on it. |
I use a 19.5" x 16.25" x 3.5" maple block on cork/rubber in a SolidSteel WS-5 wall shelf (have also use sorbothane disks under the block). My Clearaudio Ovation sits on top of that. However, when I had it made I had it done as an edge grain. Now I am talking to Butcher Block Acoustics about making me a custom end-grain 3" maple block in the same size. I am also planning to audition a set of HRS Nimbus feet to see if it improves the system further. |
@blueranger My opinion.... It has been my recent experience that using rubber for turntable damping does not seem to produce the desired results. Removing the "half inch high damped spike stands" that use rubber may have cleaned up dynamics and the midrange. At least that has been my experience with a couple of VPI tables. That's only my opinion. YMMV. |
I just did take the little spike stands away and rested the TT spikes on the maple block. Then I threaded up my 2 belts and now the motor pulley is too high for the platter and won't stay on. I remembered I had 3 small myrtlewood blocks and placed under the spikes. Put the belts on and I swear it sounded better than before. It doesn't make sense that by taking out that the half inch high dampened spike stands would make a difference but it was a positive one. A warmer sound with a richer bass. Tell me it's not true. But I was a happy listener all afternoon. I replayed U2 SBS which is a little dry and shrill anyway and now its much better. |
I have my Thorens 124 with glued-on ebony wood spikes sitting on a 1" maple butcher block which sits on spikes attached to wall shelf bolted to a stud in the wall. It allows me to use the classic Swiss Beachwood plinth with no mushrooms instead of some massive thing and it just sounds and looks awesome. |
The thing with cones is they’re rather *directional* and should always be points down. When they are points down they allow energy to *exit* the system and disallow energy to come up into the system, relatively speaking. This is also why the specific material of the cone and the shape of the cone are also important. What you want this very rapid energy transfer as well as seismic energy blocking. |
@geoffkait What golden rule of cones. Oh, no. I didn't know!! Please don't call the cone police! Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa! ;-) I didn't want to put threaded inserts into the maple bb. My thin and weak excuse is that I didn't want to risk damage to the bb. The real reason is that I was too lazy to drill out holes for the inserts. Figured it would be OK. The Stillpoint cones are point-up, BearClaws are solid brass and point-up. |
Placed the maple butcher block on three cones solid brass (facing up) on the top of the record shelves (same shelf / position as before). Placed the Aries Extended on the butcher block. Put three stillpoints under the table at the approximate position as the cones under the bb. Adjusted for level. There was an improvement. Dynamics seemed a bit shrper, bass a bit tighter. The subtle warmth around the lower registers of a harp and clarinet was reduced providing more detail, particularly woodiness of the clarinet. Maybe the soundstage was improved. Maybe. Maybe the imaging was a little tighter. Maybe. Maybe tenor and also voices were a little more natural (less chesty, but since its vocals, who know what they REALLY sound like live). Maybe. My conclusion is that the ~ $120 investment was worth it. I do intend to try a set of dedicated rigid shelves that are "coned" directly into the concrete floor with the table sitting in a configuration with the maple bb like above. Not sure there is much room for improvement, but it might be worth a try. |
ya, i just have a 2" maple butcher block under my VPI Scoutmaster II. I am just using the cork and rubber squares: about 1" cubed. its good, but not the best. vibrapods are good as well. but with a blank butcher block, you can drill 3-4 holes to install spikes. e.g, from Dayon Audio or Parts express. but you will want to use a drill press to make sure the holes are perfectly straight, so that your spikes are perfectly straight. 1. drill hole in the block 2. install metal female outside threaded piece into the hole you drilled. 3 . screw in the metal spikes. 4. put metal discs under the spikes if you like I've done this, worked for me |
@noromance The table rests on three original Stillpoints. I doan need no steenkin mat. All kidding aside, the previous owner of the table saw this thread ad gave me a call over the weekend. Made a couple of suggestions. Both have improved the sound and reduced the magnitude of the warmth I was trying to address. Still room for more tweaks. |
@bpoletti Er... your turntable mat. You don’t have one, do ya? No Virtual System either. A few years ago, I had problems with heavy furniture under my 401. Warmth, blurring, sluggishness. I put 3 small granite block samples on the furniture top. Then placed the heavy 401 on small brass compression rings I had knocking around. Basically the turntable sat on 3 pieces of tiny decouplers which rested on the granite which rested flat on the furniture top. It totally cleaned up the sound for no $. I use a different set up now but that worked for years. |
@stringreen Great thought and common sense overlooked! The table currently sits on a robust set of shelves on which also rests some electronics and hold around 1,000 records. Maybe not the best place to place a turntable. My listening area in a finished basement room. I can spike a rack to the basement floor, spike the (new) Chop Block board to the rack and use original StillPoint cones on which to mount the Aries Extended. Hadn't thought to remove the Aries "feet" but they are not in use, that's a no-brainer with this config. All I'm REALLY trying to do is get rid of some warmth that seems to be coming from the table (vinyl chain). I know it's not the electronics (all Herron Audio) and have pretty much isolated it to the arm (JMW Memorial 12) or table itself. At the amplification used for mc carts, it's easy to pick up very tiny signals or resonances outside of the music. |
My listening room is up on the second floor so I had to come with a mounting scheme to isolate my turntable (Technics SP10 MKII/ Basis Vector IV arm in Technics Obsidian plinth). I got the large Target wall mount shelf..I removed the standard MDF shelf and spikes...Replaced the spikes with these threaded rubber/cork blocks from Mapleshade that screw into the target shelf. I got a 3" maple butcher block shelf from "Dawn's Platforms" here on Agon that sits on top of those Mapleshade blocks...I removed the crap feet from the Technical Obsidian plinth and replace with Stillpoints...that sit between the plinth and the maple shelf. It works well for me. |
nuttin'honey....just butcher block on a table. Surely you can try whatever you care to, but VPI designed solid suspension works with the block. Rid yourself of the damper feet and replace them with Bearpaws (very large brass cones...returnable if not wanted) Suspended chasis work best with lightweight tables. I tried Vibrapods....just muddied up the sound. Experimentation is fun however |
prof wrote, “But...putting the springs beneath can it seems add a tiny bit more ring-off when the turntable itself is tapped (thinking of turntable born-resonance, rumble here, possibly being slightly amplified by being placed on springs). So...the best approach I could come up with is: use springs, but holding up fairly heavy materials above. If the object held by the springs is too light then you get some feedback if the turntable is pinged sitting on the springs. But the more weight you place between the turntable and the springs. the lower the feedback to the springs. Once you have a heavy base atop the springs it seems to be the best of both worlds: tap or stomp beneath the bass and the springs do a great job of isolating vibration to the turntable above them. But tap the turntable or the maple block above the springs, and that too produces even less vibration (measurable with the ipad app) than the turntable sitting on just a shelf or on just the maple block.” >>>>>>>Wow! I didn’t think it was possible but your research into vibration isolation completely failed to turn up an explanation of mass-on-spring isolation. Should I be flabbergasted? 😮 Quick tutorial : You have to match the spring rate to the mass! The total spring rate equals the spring rate per spring x no. of springs. You want to obtain the lowest possible resonant frequency for the iso stand which is inversely proportion to square root of total mass and proportional to square root of total spring rate? It’s not rocket science. 🚀 |
bpoletti, I can't give you any solid knowledge on this issue. Even when I tried to get info, suggestions were all over the place. You can't do one thing that another audiophile will telly you is Absolutely The Wrong Way To Go!So take whatever I contribute with a grain of salt. I went down the rabbit hole "researching" (on a layman's level) many isolation materials and the various footers, isolators etc. I used a siesmometer app on my ipad, to get objective read outs of vibration isolation, and used the "hand test" (what I could feel coming through and other off the cuff techniques as well. So...not exactly lab work. But the best I could do given the wilderness of contrasting opinions. I ended up with a 2 1/2" thick maple block, atop various materials but most importantly: The single most effective isolators were spring based - in my case Townsend Isolation Pods. They measured, and felt, vastly more effective than any other material or footer I tried (sorbothane, vibrapods, Isoacoustics pucks, etc). That is for stopping major vibrations getting TOO the turntable on top of a block held upon those springs. Stamp the floor around the turntable and you can feel virtually nothing, and the seismometer app registers very small readings vs the huge spikes without the springs. But...putting the springs beneath can it seems add a tiny bit more ring-off when the turntable itself is tapped (thinking of turntable born-resonance, rumble here, possibly being slightly amplified by being placed on springs). So...the best approach I could come up with is: use springs, but holding up fairly heavy materials above. If the object held by the springs is too light then you get some feedback if the turntable is pinged sitting on the springs. But the more weight you place between the turntable and the springs. the lower the feedback to the springs. Once you have a heavy base atop the springs it seems to be the best of both worlds: tap or stomp beneath the bass and the springs do a great job of isolating vibration to the turntable above them. But tap the turntable or the maple block above the springs, and that too produces even less vibration (measurable with the ipad app) than the turntable sitting on just a shelf or on just the maple block. I've read some posts by some folks who seem quite experienced with these techniques who came to the same conclusion: best is springs incorporated into the system, but make sure they are holding up something heavy enough to also dampen any major ringing feedback from the springs. Again...take all that for what it's worth: just another audiophile who tried to answer these same questions. I'm quite happy with the way my base turned out. |
I don’t think there’s a simple answer to this question. It depends on the floor, the rack, and the turntable. I’d try different things. I have 2 turntables. My equipment rack has 3" wood maple shelves that sit on small sorbothane bumpers and it sits on a concrete floor. The TT is more than 8’ away from the speakers (as noted, the further away the better). My old HW-19 VPI TT (unsuspended) sounds best with an older variant of Herbies sorbothane pucks underneath it. I didn’t like the sound of them under my TW Acustic TT (122 lbs!). However, with the TW, I still hear some noise from the speakers if I rap hard enough on the wood maple shelf it sits on, so it’s not yet fully optimized. I’d buy several cheap isolators people suggested or make your own (skip the Spam & DelMonte except for dinner?) and try them all out. Good luck experimenting! |
@mr_m Disclaimer duly noted. FWIW, Steinway & Sons uses kiln dried wood. As do most other significant instrument makers of our time, such as guitar makers Martin, Gibson, Fender, and Rickenbacker. Stradivarius, in 1644, likely did not. Interesting case study on Kiln Drying Upgrade by Steinway & Sons http://www.ers-inc.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/Kiln-Upgrade-Study-at-Steinway.pdf |
My TT is a Technics SL1210M5G. I use a combination of Vibrapod Cones and Vibrapod Isolators under the turntable itself, and placed on top of a Michigan Maple butcher block cutting board. It's pretty massive at 20"w x 15"d x 3.5"h (I think it weighs as much as the turntable). I felt I needed something to isolate room vibrations from traveling up into the turntable. On the advice of a disco DJ (who used a similar turntable) I bought a pair of Fellowes silicone gel wrist pads made for computer keyboards. The DJ said they'd do a great job of keeping bassy feedback out of the signal chain. He was right. I've had my turntable/butcher block stack resting on top of those wrist rests for around 8 years now with no desire to change anything. |
