What will a preamp do for me?


Missing in the chain below is a preamp - I use the DAC to control volume.  This is my only source and will be for some time.  What could I gain by adding a preamp?

I have Thiel CS 2.3s driven by a BAT VK-55, sourced by PS Audio PW DAC, with bridge II, mostly tidal.  The DAC serves as a preamp in terms of volume control.  Mostly Audioquest cables, amp power cord is Cardas Clear m, all fed by PS Audio upc-200.

I am am hoping to improve the highs, which sometimes sound smeared, too much sibilance; would like more air and clarity.  Loud rock sounds flatter, less dynamic than I’d like.  I am not willing to give up the deep detailed and beautifully resonant mids.  Willing to spend up to $3000, used is ok.  Totally balanced is a must.  Not currently willing to entertain the idea of different speakers - my goal is to make the 2.3s sound as good as reasonably possible before moving on to other speakers.  It’s easy to find a really good preamp in this price range, so much so I am almost paralyzed by the choices.  Aesthetix , Ayre, ARC, several BAT, Parasound and more all have apparently excellent models in my price range.  Patience would put Atma-sphere and PS Audio within reach.  Which is best for my situation?  There’s no way to audition all of these, how could I avoid getting on a preamp merry-go-round?  Or should I spend my money elsewhere?
128x128thosb

Showing 9 responses by thosb

Thanks for the insight on why volume control from the DAC causes a weakness in the system.  Eventually I want to upgrade the PWD to the DSD, so that makes the stellar gain fell a non starter, unfortunately.  I will check out the 4.6 pre by ps audio, but I really want to stick with balanced, and so far I have not had much like finding a low cost totally balanced pre.  Schiit Freya?  
Agree that high power ss amps are the standard choice for Thiels in general, and the 2.3s impedance curve does NOT make them an exception.  However, the BAT VK-55 sounds much better than my previous amp (Krell KAV 300-iL, 200 wpc at 8 ohm, doubling down to 4 ohm), maybe it's just the sound of tubes that I am enjoying? BAT literature suggests this amp should be capable of handling challenging loads - there's even a 2 ohm tap - that being said, I know I can do better amp wise.  But to keep the sound of tubes and switch to high current ss amp means I need a tube pre-amp, and now I am right back where I started!?! 
Well, I am not going to chain together three pre-amps, at least not any time soon, but I do appreciate all the ideas! 

elizabeth - I read with interest your thread titled "how do you know which component to upgrade" and found it very insightful, except for the fact that it ultimately didn't answer my question, not that I really expected it to :).  But I am happily following your advice so far, as left for me on a similar post, kind of a false start to this one.

atmasphere - I am dedicated to keeping all things balanced.

mrdecibel - 85% of my listening, and nearly all of my critical listening, is a mix of Americana (Tidal's nomenclature, aka folk, alt-country, chamber pop, laurel canyon pop, jazz pop, non pop radio pop, alt/indy, some but not all rock-n-roll, etc) as well as jazz and classical, generally at 75-85 dBs.  To my inexperienced ears, my system sounds pretty darn good for this type of music in my room.  It just bugs me that when I want to rock out, the sound is not as enjoyable.  Ditto the treble.  

gosta - I love the Theils - for now.  Speaker upgrade is well out over the horizon, but certainly out there, albeit way out in the future (2020 maybe?).  My goal for now is to make the 2.3s sound as good as possible, maybe even upgrade the crossovers, before moving on.

all - sounds like there possibilities both ways, my conclusion so far is that ultimately what I am looking for COULD be achieved without a preamp, AND it's also likely that the RIGHT pre would also make me very happy. If the right pre is right to me because it colors the sound a certain way, perhaps I can get there following another path?

So far I have improved isolation of the amp (moderate improvement) and plugged it right into the wall outlet (also a moderate improvement).  Next up is a Furutech wall outlet (Rhodium plating, "Rhodium especially excels in the high frequencies which are detailed and clear. Overall rhodium yields a super responsive, delicate, expressive and neutral sound…" - we'll see.  Then I think I will try some NOS 6SN7s, old Russian tubes from Upscale, in place of the current Sylvania Chrome Domes.  Upgrading the source to a PS Audio DSD is the next big component improvement.  After that, speaker isolation? And then, maybe, the Schitt Freya, because it is balanced, gives me three modes of operation to play with including passive, (four if you count the Octal LISST option) but even more importantly, it can be returned (it will be a tough 15 days of burn-in and listening, but if I plan ahead, I think I am up to the task).  And of course, room treatment will continue.  Or maybe I will come across what could be the perfect pre-amp at a price that not buying would be very regretful, who knows, it could happen! 

More advice is welcome!  
I have yet to get to the preamp auditions - I took elizabeth's advice and upgraded power cord for amp (Cardas Clear M), plugged it directly into the wall socket rather than the conditioner, and replaced the wall socket with a Furutech GTX-D(R) so far.  All modest but noticable improvements.  During the same time period, I added some isolation devices for the amp and source, and that is as far as I have gotten.  Isolating the amp with wood platform and Iso's cones and feet made the biggest difference by far.  In fact, now I am considering Gaias and Oreas too.  Next big upgrade will be upgrading the source to PSA's DSD DAC.  THEN I will move on to preamps, unless something else strikes my fancy in the meantime.
And almost forgot, I have been trying  some NOS 6SN7s, old Russian tubes from Upscale, in place of the Sylvania Chrome Domes that came with the amp, which has been interesting so far, probably worthy of another thread.  Bottom line - no big difference yet, but maybe still burning these old Russians in.  
elizabeth - the Goldpoint is a very interesting idea, one worth trying, had one in the cart before remembering that these cost about the same as the Schiit Freya.  Unless there's some obvious technical advantage in the volume control (neither use potentiometers, both use resistors) wouldn't it still make more sense to try the Freya?  I guess the selling point for the Goldpoint is no distortion, vs ability to influence SQ with the Freya?  
cbrents73 - good suggestion, thanks, as I continues to think about preamps, I thought that it would be nice to have bass management for future sub(s), and maybe the DSP and DAC on this unit is the icing on the cake!
I would promise it a good power cord to keep it well fed, a variety of aftermarket tubes to keep it interested, isolation to keep it comfy, and oodles of fiddles and ABC to keep it dancing.
Thanks George!  So far my conclusion re preamps is they can shape the sound (along with source and volume control), sometimes to great affect, but no guarantees that one will provide the specific improvements I am looking for.  I was pretty sure impedance matching in my system was not a problem due to the BAT’s 215kohm input but glad you confirmed this.  Firmware is up to date on the dac.  So I think I need to experiment more with room treatments, especially the sidewalls, before tone control/dsd etc, my thinking is the smear and unwanted sibalance could be those high frequencies bouncing around the room much more than ideal.  Sounds like the start of a new thread!