Entrope
Re country music - you realize you are on hip-hop thread turf here? Anyway, we aren't feeling violent today so we will let you slide. Seriously though, I am not a country guy......... but, a couple of weeks back I happened to pick up a random CD - the Zack Brown Band - "The Foundation". No ten gallon hats and wranglers here - the guys look like a white Cypress Hill with beanies and baggy clothes. Anyway, I popped the CD in my car and was very impressed. Every musician in the group is top-notch and the band as a unit is tight as a fly's ear. They have a bit of a southern rock thing going on and every track is worth a listen or ten. I think this is a pretty new band (at least I have never heard of them) and I am sure they will be HUGE. As I say, country isn't my thing but there is no denying it they are a great band - definitely check them out if you aren't already familiar. |
Hi Bongofurious and Darkmoboebeous!!
Good to see you have still been defending the fort and warding off a few skirmishes in the trenches. I knew you would have a stockpile of ammunition if you needed to use it to keep the enemy at bay (hehe). |
Andrew
Love Dr. Dog. In 2008, I can't tell you the amount of times I heard that album as a sonic backdrop to coffee shops and hip clothing botiques. Underground but great. |
Is John Prine country? Love his stuff.
Rosanne Cash has her moments but not totally to my taste. Now Patsy Cline.... |
Bongofury -
Cool I'll check a couple of those out. I passed on the first Cold War Kids but thought I'd keep my eyes out for new stuff. I've heard a few off the Vampire Wknd and they sound pretty fun. Have to check that out.
Don't know if you've heard Dr. Dog's "Fate" but I bet you'd dig it.
Timrhu - thanks, man! I'll check it out. "The List" is my only Rosanne Cash so far but I'd love some more of her stuff. |
Steve Earle. Willie Nelson. Dave Alvin. Love those American artists. |
Rosanne Cash, "Interiors" if you don't have it, get it. Fantastic, dark album. There are a couple of country style cuts but the raw emotion is palpable throughout. |
Entrope -
How do you like the new Rosanne Cash? I keep coming back to it... |
"I lost my woman and ma' dog, then my pickup got a flaaaaattttt" |
Let's talk about country music now... |
At the Newport Folk Festival, Dylan was backed by the electric Paul Butterfield Blues Band.
Anyway, I understand why people don't like rap(I can't stand most of it), there's nothing wrong with that. But, to say there is no talent in any artist within the entire genre, or that all of them are hoodlums is either ignorance of inexperience.
To claim that one has to play an instrument or read music to be considered a legitimate artist is ridiculous(not to mention quite a few hip-hop artist do both). Rock, blues, Jazz, and Country music have a rich history of great singers and musicians who couldn't do one or both.
I have usually found that those who make the most adamant and generalized statements against rap are also those who know the least about it. |
01-20-10: Chashmal
Darkmoebius: I am so tired of that argument. Just because 2 things have similarities does not mean they are related. Yes, it is true, similar things were said. However the context was completely different...Rock n' roll is obviously a great musical form, Chasmal, I know classical fanatics(not just old ones) who still consider Rock & Roll to be to crap created by untalented and untrained drug addicts & hoodlums. So no, your Red Scare analogy doesn't apply, it's not a generational or historical context thing. There are also Classical fanatics who still think Jazz is crap and lacking in refined musicianship. Many others might say the same about, especially, the blues greats. Here's a funny bit of Rock & Roll history, for those that didn't already know... The first major time Bob Dylan publicly performed Rock-tinged folk with an electric guitar instead of acoustic at the 1965 Newport Folk Festival, folk purists were horrified. It was so offensive and unconscionable to folk singer Pete Seeger, that he grabbed a fire axe and had to be restrained form chopping all the power cords to the band and smashing their amps(according to a documentary I saw on PBS). Supposedly parts of the crowd, other performers, and even the press booed Dylan. Ewan MacColl wrote in Sing Out! folk magazine, "Our traditional songs and ballads are the creations of extraordinarily talented artists working inside traditions formulated over time ... But what of Bobby Dylan? ... a youth of mediocre talent. Only a non-critical audience, nourished on the watery pap of pop music could have fallen for such tenth-rate drivel." Sound familiar? |
Chashmal
Rap has no greatness in it. Just listen to it!
My two line response. Have you lived in a cave for the last three decades without access to popular culture?
Have you actually EVER contributed anything positive in a posting during your life on Audiogon? |
Darkmoebius: I am so tired of that argument. Just because 2 things have similarities does not mean they are related. Yes, it is true, similar things were said. However the context was completely different. It is just like the red scare of the 1950's. We laugh at McCarthy now, but it turns out he was right! Rock n' roll is obviously a great musical form, but it DOES lead to degeneration of cultural values. We are seeing that now. It doesn't make Rock N' Roll any less great. Rap has no greatness in it. Just listen to it! |
Andrew
I like quite a few things at the moment:
Cold War Kids, Santa Ana Winds--one of the better bands from So Cal slip in a nice EP for the new year
Vampire Weekend: Contra--nice sophmore effort. Especially like the song and video for "Cousins."
The Throwdowns: Don't Slow Down. Maui's hottest band effortlessly mixes ska, punk, pop
The Union Line: winners of best live act in So Cal.
The XX: moody girl/boy songs from London trio.
Mos Def: Estatic: nice return to form for this Brooklyn based rapper
Excellent DVD: The Killers at Royal Albert Hall. Chock full of good songs, it makes the case that this band, along with Kings of Leon, are America's best live acts. |
01-19-10: Chashmal
The intellectual and emotive content seems fitting only for not very bright adolescents and criminal low lifes. Wasn't the same thing said about rock & roll and jazz by the musical intelligentsia back in the day? |
I am actually quite surprised that there are so many audiophiles who would consider rap anything other than total garbage. The intellectual and emotive content seems fitting only for not very bright adolescents and criminal low lifes. I am surprised that it is being discussed seriously at all. |
Bongo -
Yup, lovin' "Carried to Dust" lately but "In the Reins" is never too far from the turntable. OT but whats in heavy rotation with you. I could use some good new tunes (as usual) hip hop to country.
As for the OP, I'd rather ask "When will LAME MUSIC become less mainstream" Not holding my breath. |
This thread has got too heavy - time for a joke:
Why do most Audiogoner's treat their music collection like candy?
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A: because they throw away the wrappers!
ROFLMAO |
01-18-10: Bongofury
I used to see Ted play down at the Venice boardwalk busking. Incredible talent. Thanks for rekindling a distant memory. Strange story on how he came to be re-discovered. Hawkins had shifted from performing on the Venice boardwalk to the newer 3rd Street Promenade in Santa Monica. Where he used to sit on his paint bucket and play just happened to be right below the dual-use commercial/condo units at the south end of the street. it just so happened that recording artists/songwriter/musician Michael Penn(brother of actors Sean & Chris) lived in the unit right above. Listening to it all day, day after day, Penn became a huge fan of Hawkins. Penn called a good friend of his, Tony Berg, who had just become an A&R rep at Geffen and said "You have to sign this guy". Berg had to really battle to sign a folk/blues/soul artist on a hard rock/alternative label, but eventually won. He got another band of his, The Wild Colonials, to play all the backing string instruments and write the arrangements on "The Next Hundred Years". After the CD came out, literally scores of famous musicians & songwriters(Red Hot Chili Peppers, Joni Mitchell, Seal) sent word that they had been admiring Hawkins playing for a good decade and were overjoyed he finally got recognition. The was a great turnout for his record release party. Every once in while, I remember to toss on "Hundred Years" and fall in love with it all over again. It is beautiful in it's simplicity. |
D Mob
I used to see Ted play down at the Venice boardwalk busking. Incredible talent. Thanks for rekindling a distant memory. |
Wow, another two line response. Don Jr., please reread the string. This is not even your best shot? |
01-17-10: Donjr
RAP is not music as far as I'm concerned. You have to be able to read music to make it. Well, that rules out 90% of rock, Pop, Soul, R&B, and country recording artists, too. |
RAP is not music as far as I'm concerned. You have to be able to read music to make it. How do you even hear RAP music? Do they play it on the radio? I haven't heard that crap since the 90's. And about American Idol. If you watch it, we're never going to be able to get rid of it. Do our future a favor and don't watch American Idol. |
Voodoo, now that record is the bomb. Sad that D'Angelo has retired from the scene, but that one holds up. As for Calexico, one of the best groups ever. Have liked everything they have done, including the Black Light and Feast of Wire. |
Sit -
+1 to Guru,the Roots, and MC Solaar. Good stuff.
A couple others you may want to check out are;
Soul Position's "Things Go Better With RJ and AL".
I heard them live on KEPX and although I don't listen to much rap, I was impressed with their energy and showmanship. Interestingly, they are more pissed about the current direction of rap than anyone here and express it well. No that doesen't mean they yell more. Fun group with some good tunes and intelligent lyrics. Check out "Hand me downs" refering to all the great music that has come before and asking what we will hand down to future generations.
D'Angelo's Voodoo
is a couple of years old now but was a couple of years ahead of its time when it came out in 2000. The great studio bassist Pino Palladino (who some of you may know as the sub for the Ox on the Who's tour just after he passed) did the low end work on the album and did some fantastic stuff. Its a very dense album in terms of rhythm. Many of the fills and horn hits where the beat is pushed or slips in John Mayer's Continuum such as in "I Don't Trust Myself ..." come from Pino's work with D'Angelo. If you like that album, you may find "Voodoo" interesting. At the very least its a good chance to listen to a great player in two very different settings.
I'm going to get back to my Calexico! Happy listening! |
Foh-schnizzin', Bongofury |
TT
Dwizzzle deezle, those rims sizzle |
DJ TT
Those Brazialian girls are fly, and baby likes back! |
Waaaazup Dmob
DeDE be trippin, na, I wanna be lookin dowyyyyyn from mae whip at them Agon mofs, not up.
Imma steal me one when I get to Rio......ain't no shame in mae game. |
Thomas, you are killing me! DeDe says you need 20's on your ride, not 26's - DeDe's ride(1:40-2:35 into the video) |
Hey Bongo.
I am off to Brazil toaday for a week. I usually have to get to the airport a lot earlier than others. My jewelry keeps setting the buzzers off. By the time I take off all my necklaces and eight rings I am already cutting it close to catch my flight, and don't even get me started with the baseball hat and bandana.
They are always giving me a hard time for having all those batteries in my boom box too. Then there is the mandatory airline official who has always has something negative to say when I start breakdancing in the departure lounge.
I called Hertz in Rio and not one of the cars in their fleet come with 26 inch rims - can you believe that!
Anyway, the honeys on Copacabana beach will make it all worthwhile.
Oh, and don't worry, I won't forget to pick you up all that budget bling you asked me for.
Catch you later. |
For Soul/Blues/Folk fans, one of my all time favorite artists (and albums) of the last ~15 years is Ted Hawkins' "The Next Hundred Years". His voice and musical style is a cross between Sam Cooke and Otis Redding, although his songwriting has tinges of Woody Guthrie and Blind Willy Johnson with a touch of Bob Dylan. The entire disc is incredible, but especially check out the songs "Strange Conversation", "Big Things", "Biloxi", "Green-eyed Girl", and especially his A capella cover of John Fogerty's "Long as I Can See the Light". Ted had recording contracts which spanned almost 30 years, but vagrancy, drugs, jail, and alcohol always seemed to undermine his career just as it was about to take off. Over that time, his style changed with the time, incorporating, Blues, Folk, Soul and finally fusing them into something wholly his own. In 1994, he was re-discovered and signed to Geffen Records by producer/A&R rep Tony Berg who backed Ted's beautifully sparse tunes with minimalist musical accompaniment. The cd received widespread critical acclaim and national attention. Rolling Stone Magazine said in it's review: Over five previous records – only two of which are available domestically – Hawkins' reputation with musicians, critics and European audiences has grown, while popular acclaim in his native country remains elusive. Hopefully,The Next Hundred Years, Hawkins' major-label debut, will begin to change that. Years is a passionate collection of gospel, soul, country and blues songs about mortality, perseverance and transcendence that are given credence by the artist's own experiences as an ex-convict and street singer. He toured Europe and North America to ecstatic fan praise and said "that he had finally reached an age where he was glad to be able to sing indoors, out of the weather, and for an appreciative crowd". Sadly, he died of a stroke on New Years day 1 year after making his one hit album. I had the honor to meet and hang out with him little in that short period while working at Geffen. He was one of nicest, most real, people I'd ever met. He left an indelible mark on everyone he came into contact with. After his death, many of his early recordings from the mid-60's and 70's were compiled and released. Check out "The Ted Hawkins Story: Suffer No More" for when his style was similar to early James Brown, Otis Redding, and Sam Cooke circa 1966. |
There is a lot of really good music recorded on analogue recording equipment. Out of England, I can recommend James Hunter (sings like Sam Cooke) and Richard Hawley ("Coles Corner"). In the US, I can highly recommend Birdmonster (who records in the studio where REM made their first two records), Eli "Paperboy" Reed and Raphael Saadiq. For rap, I highly recommend the Roots, De La Soul, Arrested Development and the Beastie Boys (especially the "In sound from way out"). |
Nicksr
Thanks for that. You have got me a little curious now. I bought one Digable Planet's CD a long time back, can't remember the name and am too lazy to go and look now. It was was too hippy for me and I never looked more into any of the rest of their stuff as it really turned me off, but I will look into Blowout Comb....you never know.
I used to listen to a lot more hip-hop until I got my system but the sound quality on most records (CDs) ruined it a bit for me. I am fairly new to the Hi End audio thing and am in my honeymoon period I guess and am dabbling with all kinds of music, but it has to be well recorded or I get turned off right away on my new system.
As much as I really the music I already own I have always been on a mission for new stuff and never buy, say, rock classics that I am already familiar with. Being a DJ like yourself I love discovering new stuff for me and new new stuff for the crowd, say, two months old max. In my scene which is techno/house two months is getting old unless I am playing old tracks that nobody else has then I can get away with it.
Have to disagree a bit on the soundstage, emotion thing not being there. The soundstage can definitely be there and the emotion too but I agree most stuff doesn't have the sound quality as in a lot of organic music. |
Thanks Nick, you have now joined the united front of Thomas, Shadorne, Dark Mob and myself. Remember, always outnumbered but never outgunned. Thomas is suggesting we meet for beers. I am down with it. |
Back to the original question - Digable Planets - Blowout Comb - Bar none the best underground hip-hop album of all times. Lyrics, beats, samples and scratching, all A1.
That said. MC Hammer? If you like MC Hammer try listening to Rick James, Super Freak. It will sound very familiar...
That said here are some recommendations some may have already been provided by others above:
- Tribe Called Quest (from New-York not LA) all there albums are great, my favorite is midnight marauders.
- The Pharcyde, best tracks are runnin'(beat is based on Stan Getz Samba sample) and passin me by.
- De la Soul
- Common the album Ressurection, specifically the scratching on the title track, plus various samples throughout from Roy Ayers' "everybody loves the sunshine"
- People Under the Stairs
- Mos Def
And the list goes on... wait one more!
MC Solar, his two first ablums are his best, preferrably the first "Qui sème le vent récolte le tempo", the Track Caroline, is the finest heart-break hip-hop ballad of all times... Only French rhymes can accurately portray the emotional heart break you feel when you find your girl sharing a cigarette with another man in the subway. Truly poetic.
What makes hip-hop/rap good. IMHO, good poetic lyrics, not just words that rhyme. Rappin' about b!tches and hoes should be a crime... (pun intended). Original musical beats, not simply slowing down or speeding up or reversing James Brown's Funky Drummer. Samples that are relevant and credited to the original artists from who composed them. And DJ that can Scratch (Turntabalism).
One more point, if I were to listen to only hip-hop/rap I wouldn't need hig-end audio system. Generally, there are no "musical instruments" used, so the detail, emotion sound stage isn't there. So whether listening on an IPOD or $50k system the marginal difference would not warrant the investment.
But without hip-hop I would not have not learned to appreciate much of the Jazz, Funk and Soul which I enjoy on my system daily.
Finally, it was my passion as a Dee-Jay which has given rise to my interest in the this Audiophile hobby (or is it an addiction?). |
Tpreaves
Tiny Tim - now there's a blast from the past! I will give the treatment a miss though. Hip-hop accounts for probably 20% of what I listen to these days, I don't actually have a favorite genre at all - good music is good music whatever the genre and however it's made. If I wasn't so open-minded then maybe I would take you up on the treatment thing. Have you ever thought about checking yourself in?
I really don't understand why so many people on here have a fly in their ear over hip-hop. What I do suspect though is that something else is coloring their judgement (no pun intended) and it has nothing at all to do with music.
If I went through your music collection I am sure I would like a great percentage of it, maybe even latch onto some of the styles that normally wouldn't float my boat. I consider myself lucky in that sense. Obviously, some of the stuff I would pass on, but I could never see myself reacting towards it with out and out hatred like some of the above posters. Put it this way - if I was offered a night out, free beer all night to hang out with any 3 or 4 guys on this thread for a great time, fun conversation and a good old laugh I would have a hard time selecting more than three or four drinking buddies from the thread (don't worry Bongofury, the barmaid said yours is coming right up). What I am saying is, these reactions say more about the whole person than simply their taste in music. |
Thomastrouble...Glad to hear that.This stuff can de daunting sometimes.BTW,you might want to look into a 12-step program to help out with that rap addiction that is haunting you!!!!!!!!!!!! I heard of a clinic in Canada that will put you on a 24/7 dosage of Tiny Tim and Yoko Ono that is guaranteed to wean you off that rap nonsense.Of course listening to Tiny Tim and Yoko Ono 24/7 might make you want to stop listening to music all together!!!!!!!! Then you can sell all of your equipment on A'gon for half price to help pay for the treatment!!!!!!
Okay,enough's enough,I gotta go listen to my Gregg Allman and Cher album.Later. |
TPREAVES,
Yep, got it all down - even the bi-amping. Piece of cake in the end. Still working on room treatment issues though.
No, don't point me in the direction of any new gear, enough is enough and I am too easily tempted. |
Funny the way this whole string reads. To be honest, I would have expected the intellectual, well thought out and researched posts to come from the rock/classical camp. Instead, all I am seeing from this side is "two liners" and grossly ignorant statements with absolutely no substance. The ones with even less to say but with more word-count have ran off with their tails between their legs after they were confronted by a smidgeon of intelligence.
OK, hope this ruffles a few feathers (hehe).
Oh, by the way, HI FI Snob is having a party at his house on Saturday, no chicks though. I RSVPd suggesting that he label all his components with REALLY big price stickers (cables and all) to save his breath and to give him a little more time to swan around his pad listening to all the ass-kissing male guests complimenting him on his system, which was the whole point of throwing the party in the first place. Time to let your hair down, It's gonna be absolutely craaaaaaaaazy. Dress code - suit and tie.
OK, I admit it, not much work to do around here today so I thought I would throw a few more cats in among the pigeons for a bit of fun. |
Tpreaves
We hip hop and electronica fans be simpletons. I just bypass the whole thing by simply adjusting the volume on my car stereo to 10. At home, I simply plug and unplug my headphones into my iPod. Everything else seems a waste of time between the enjoyment of music and gear. :0 |
No, no. You hip hop, car jockeys need to learn what bass is supposed to sound like. Not that LF distortion noise almost every one of you are so proud of. THAT is what people are repulsed by. It's not the volume, it is the lack of sounding anything like music. Maybe there are some good tunes in there, but they keep getting drowned out by all of the parts rattling around on your rice rockets. Come back and give me a listen when you can reproduce a decent 20Hz tone without the car farts getting in the way. :-) |
Bongofury.....BINGO you win,that's him,the one and only.He also ratted out one of his roadies to save his ass from going to prison.No ones perfect!!!!!!!!!(LOL)He is also one of the most respected musicians in the business regardless of his obvious misgivings.Evidently he doesn't like rap music and that's his choice,just as it is your choice to like it.
Poor Thomas was feeling lonely because no one was talking to him so I just stirred the pot up for him.I didn't want him choking on his rice.
Thomastrouble...I'm glad you have found a friend that shares your enthusiasm with rap music.Friends are a great thing to have.Have you bought any more equipment lately?You do know the new Absolute Sound's recommended systems are out,don't you?BTW,did you ever figure out how to connect your speaker cables to your amp?As you say,keep it real and peace out. |
T.PREAVES
Who is that - is that that old dude from the Allman Smothers? |
Tpreaves
If I am not mistaken, Gregg Allman is known in music circles as 1) a cokehead 2) a wife beater 3) a person who had a abusive relationship with an underage porn star that later committed suicide. Next. |
Hey guys, what happened to the original poster? Seems he started a brawl, ducked under his keyboard and ran out the back door when it all hit the fan. My buddy said he saw him a couple of streets away, down an alley with a boom-box practicing his MC Hammer dance moves. |
Entrope
No, no, no - you are doing it all wrong. Critical listening at traffic lights really is not the way to go, especially with your windows up. I used to do this all the time but decided to spend all the money I was losing on parking tickets and traffic violations on hip-hop CDs instead. I swear to god, it sounded way better on my own home system.
Now i have all these guys with Audiogon stickers on their cars pulling alongside ME for a quick listen. One even made his fingers into an "A" shape and flashed me the Audiogon gang sign.....pretty scary. I hear there has been a spate of drive-by listenings out in the burbs recently, that is why me and HI FI snob prefer to stay at home on the sofa whacking off over John Denver.
Be safe, and keep it real....peace out! |
Darkmoebius....Check out Charles Walker and the Dynamites if you want a dose of old school soul."Kaboom!" from 2007 and "Burn It Down" from 2009 on Outta Sight Records.Kinda reminds me of James Brown,lotta funky soul!!!!!! |
01-14-10: Dan_ed
Intimidate rockers?!?! Bring it on kids. WE were intimidating your grandparents! :-) That was my first laugh of the morning! I'm primarily a rock & jazz guy, trying to learn about classical. Can't get with country, though. There is plenty in Popular music(Pop) that I dislike. Soul and R&B really don't exist in the purer sense, which is too bad. No more Aretha, Roberta, Otis... Instead, they try to pass off Mariah Carey and Whitney Houston as on that level. I thought I'd never start sounding alike a middle aged guy, here I am at 45(n March)and doing just that. |
