Who has Luv for the Lyngdorf 2170 and is thinking about the 3400.

It really seems like folks are happy if you can get over the retail price Per watt. .

It does eliminate the need for a DAC. That's a big dollar factor too.

Huge 2170 fan here. Auditioned it in my home vs Odyssey Kismet and recent top tier LTA products and it was, very surprisingly to me, easily the best performer. And this included both Analog and Digital input evaluation. I continue to be amazed at its abilities. As close to a "wire with gain" as I've ever experienced. If you like second order distortion, it may not be for you. But if you want to be in the studio during the recording session, you may want to audition it. And despite it's digital backbone, it doesn't have any class D amplification characteristics I can detect. It's very "natural" sounding to me. And it has an undetectable noise floor. You hear everything.  

Something totally different. I believe the amplification section is extremely good.
Scroll down this article until you see "Amplifier Class of Operation" in red font and start reading. Their solution is pretty interesting. https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/amplifier/integrated-amplifiers/lyngdorf-audio-tdai-2170-fully-d...

I’ve done quite a bit of experimentation with things upstream of the 2170. As posted earlier I trialed the 2170 against other amps like the Odyssey Kismet/Candella and the LTA MZ2/ZOTL10 mkII and was surprised when the 2170 was the choice. Kenny, in fact, was the first one to recommend I try the 2170 with grannyring close behind. Thanks! And just FYI I have Tekton Ulfberht speakers with 15 of tweeters. Not a typo there. 15, really. So my system is very sensitive to high end. And ultimately that’s where the major delta in the components sound was found. Not totally, but it was easy to pick-out the high end clarity and analog/realistic sound. So...

My "upstream of the 2170" trial included the following combinations. // means those items were swapped in the data stream. I also used a SOtM sps500 to power any end-points that would accept that power input. I also experimented with batteries and iFI wall power supplies.

USB Stream: Window PC Music Server with AO optimization (Roon and JRiver) + SOtM txUSBexp PCI card + Uptone ISO Regen // iFI Micro iUSB3.0 // Mutec MC3+

Ethernet Stream Small Green Computer I7 Sonic Transporter in bridged mode (Roon) + SOtM Cat 7 cable + SOtM sms200 Ultra // UltraRendu

Kenny and others have had great results with the sms200 Ultra. Kenny with the SGC I7 Sonic Transport and the SOtM sms200ultra upgraded. Bill with an optomized PC / sms200ultra. So I fully expected the 200ultra to be the hands-down winner.
The AO folks swear by the Mutec attached to a PC optimized with that AO software. I thought going in that could be a possibility too. I threw the iFI Micro 3 and the ISO Regen in just to see how far behind the expensive ethernet solutions they would be and to experiment with a USB-Only stream.

Just a note. ALL of the components tested are excellent products. ALL of the suppliers were awesome to work with and allowed me no-hassle trials. I took all of their recommendations for the trial components that I tested and set-up to give them the best shot. So, I do NOT contend you will love what I love. All this stuff really-really sounds great. Listen and decide what YOU like. And I am not the level of Audiophile Kenny and most of you other Audiogonners are. This is just me relating my experience FWIW.

So, I conducted suitable burn-in and several days of listening with four different people in independent A/B testing. This included my normal test team of my very particular, calibrated-eared wife, my very music-oriented daughter and her husband (I wanted another "guy" opinion this time).

The answer? We all thought the PC + USBexp + iFI Micro iUSB3.0 was the best combination. No laughter please. I know, I know, how could that be? And I don’t get it either, but it’s true. I was in denial for a while and kept experimenting to try to push the results toward the "cool" hardware, but the more I live with it, the more I love it. The USBexp sounds pretty good by itself. Perhaps second place in the stand-alone testing, but only adds minor detail to the stream when inserted in front of the iFI Micro 3.0. The iFI Micro seems to facilitate the majority of the improved sound. The iFI wins the stand-alone contest but feeding it with the SOtM USBexp is a worthwhile, improvement. I do intend to add the clock option to the USBexp just to see if there is more to gain. I also intended to add an HDPlex LPS to the PC. But the iFI is the main-man right now.

Well there ya go. I feel like I need to go on a 12-step program after admitting these results on Agon. "My name is Bob and I am an iFI user". :-) But I thought I’d at least offer my opinion/results for others to consider.

Kenny, did I get you name wrong somewhere? If so, sorry... Also didn't know you sold the Sonictransporter. You are certainly hard to keep up with! LOL
grannyring, I had no idea you were also using the iFI3.0. Maybe I'm not crazy. I am using the same SOtM txUSBexp card you are too, apparently. I'm actually powering my USBexp with an iFI wall wart. And I agree. The PS upgrade, even to just the iFI, did make a significant difference. More than the batteries I experimented with. I am waiting for HDPlex to release it's new LPS. I'll power the PC and then directly connect the USBexp external power to it.
As far as cables, I would love to give yours home-grown an audition when you're ready. Drop me an email with details when you can, please.

I may also want to talk to you about a motherboard modification to use one of SOtMs clocks to interface between the USBexp and the MB. I know you're really good at such projects. In your spare time go to this link and scroll down to "sCLK-EX142548+tX-USBexp+ PC mainboard installation guide" a few pages down. https://www.docs.sotm-audio.com/lib/exe/fetch.php?media=manuals:sclk-ex_operating_instructions_rev1....

Looks like their web site is incomprehensible as far as purchasing/pricing. Seems they have everything is on EBay though. What unit are you using for the iFI and the txUSBexp? Also, are you using one their PC Power supplies on your server? $120 - $150 and you love it... I'm in! That's pocket change around the HT lately.

The none-existant noise floor is so striking, isn't it? It's just black. It adds so much to the dynamics, the feel of speed and separation of all the recorded compontents/instruments. It feels like they show up out of nowhere and are locked into position. I continue to play things I've listened to for years and they sound like a new hi-res recording of the song.

The 2170 analog input from my turntable sounds better than even a LTA system I sampled for a while. That surprised me. But that told me the 2170s analog capabilities are very good but any DAC to 2170 Analog path doesn't sound as good. The only way I can resolve this is to believe the external DACs I've used aren't as good as the 2170s capabilities or something else is compromising the analog signal from the digital sources. But let me tell you, the signal path from my Thorens TD-165, Hana SL, Whest Two.2 sounds really good. So I've always considered the processing upstream of the analog input to be the problem, not the analog path within the 2170. I, in fact, heard similar high-end resolution problems with digital inputs from some devices from SOtM and Uptone. The 2170 really reflects what is upstream of it with both analog and digital inputs.

Curious if anyone has used a re clocker from their streaming device to the 2170.

I am. I'm using the iFI Micro 3.0 USB. I tried several other solutions but liked the iFI solution the best. There is an earlier post in this threads with things I put between my Music Server and the Lyngdorf searching for the best solution for me. I am still working to improve the digital stream. There is a LOT that can be done to improve what the Lyngdorf sees and responds to as far as the digital input. At least, that's what my experience is. And you have to experiment. More expensive doesn't mean better sound necessarily.

Is Lyngdorf offering a trade in for the 2170 to the 3400 or is that something your dealer is offering @mrppv ?

OK. If Lyngdorf was offering a trade-in, that was going to change my 3400 thought process.
Kdude, figure that relay thing out will you! If I have to send mine back to Lyngdorf for repair, I'm going to have to buy another one for backup service! I'll have withdrawal symptoms if I have to go two weeks. Or maybe buy an LTA piece just to have tube capability from time to time. But that is also complicated by the need for an external DAC to feed the LTA. Oh bother...

If anyone gets a 3400 and can't live with it's perceived ugliness, I will happily trade my beautiful, perfect, 2170 for it. And I won't even ask for any money in addition. ;-)

I LOVE the look of the LTA stuff. I had it and the Lyngdorf in the room at the same time. It was really tough to send the LTA hardware back. I'm still thinking I may buy the MZ2 and the ZOTL10 just to play with it now and then. I keep trying to mentally justify it as "backup" hardware. The wife is waving the BS flag on that. She knows me too well.

@kdude66 +1

I am enjoying the Teradak Linear Power Supplies @grannyring recommended. I'm going to send them to him and have him turn them into Terradaktyls in a couple of weeks. Should be interesting. They are powering my SOtM usb-exp and my iFI Micro USB. They have added detail to the high end but have had more influence on midrange and midbase. I'm getting a lot more goodness out of them than I expected.

@grannyring that’s a pretty good description. But speed and tightness of the mid bass is what I noticed first. But my music selection is likely to have a lot more of that than most on this site. Plus I do have a sub with dual 15s and 4 more 12s in the ulfs. So there is a lot of low end capability. And correct on the mid-range vocals. My thought was they were more natural. Which is what I’m looking for. The fact this just keeps getting better is what amazes me. I’ve thought, this can’t improve, about 10 times now.
And we do need to discuss the USB cables.
I also just ordered the HDPlex 400 Watt LPS for my Music Server. That should be an interesting upgrade too.

I have two grannyring cables on the way. I have limited exposure to compare them though. Only BJC Cables, iFI gemini and Shunyata Research Venom. The BJC are nothing special, but the iFI Gemini makes the BJC cables sound great in comparison. I wouldn't wish the Geminis on my worse enemy. I love the sound of the Shunyata Research Venom. At $90 they are a heck of a value and I have them on both sides of my iFI Micro USB now. But I'm sure the aren't in the same class as the Lush. I wanted to sample the lush but if Grannyrings are similar, I am really looking forward to their sound. My Ulfberhts with the 2170 just respond to anything you change in front of them. That's a ton of fun for me.

Looks like my cables will be here tomorrow just in time for a weekend of break-in and listening. Can't wait... I remain just a big kid. I think Peter Pan was an Audiophile.

Try 4 walls of glass and a tiled floor and a vaulted ceiling!

Good grief! Audiophiles should not live in glass houses. I'm surprised the 2170 didn't wave the white flag and give up.

I had the three tweeter, two mid driver version of the DI Center for a while. It worked really well. Better than my B&W HTM1. Which shouldn't be a surprise at this point. But I'm sure 2X times the drivers certainly gets the job done.

The GR USB cables arrived. They were well packed and in great condition. I really like the looks of them. Nicely finished but with a retro look. And best of all they are very flexible. I'm not going to bend them around much since I'm sure that isn't great for them, but at least I can finally get the small iFI Micro to lay flat on it's isolator feet.
They are now up being broken-in with my wife playing her play list. This is what I deem destructive testing. Her list is a bit "bass heavy". But it's at least on the Bullitt Theater exercise program. So far they sound great. I'm looking forward to some intense listening later this weekend when they get some time on them.

I got a call from Eric a few days ago. I am suppose to have my Ulf center by the end of the month. I'm currently still using my 804s and HTM1 for my surround/Home Theater application. When the Ulf center arrives I can then remove the B&Ws from the Home Theater and use the Tekton system for movies as well as 2 channel. I'm really looking forward to that.

The one he’s making for me will use the Ulf drivers so it will be voiced the same as my Ulf mains. Eric seems to think it will work well with a single 7 tweeter array and two mids. We initially discussed 4 mids. I don’t know about better or ultimate. It just matches the voicing of the mains just as yours does. I’m still a bit concerned that the center will be powered by Denon receiver and the mains by the 2170 in HT Pass-through mode when movie watching. But I’m not that concerned about it. Should be fine. I’ll be happy to just get down to three speakers round my screen instead of the current 5 that are cluttering up things now.

@grey9hound This is the first Ulf center he’s made. I don’t know if it will be a standard product or not. I guess most people don’t use the Ulfs for HT since they are so large. They make my 804s look like bookshelf speakers. And I use to think they were big.
@kdude I am no where near catching you. I'm really close to reaching a plateau though. When I get the HDPlex LPS in my media server and grannyring mods my teradaks, I'm going to leave it alone for a while.
@grannyring, the cables are sounding great after burning overnight. If this is what the Lush sound like, I can understand their popularity.

It just sounds broken going from bypass to focus. It’s pretty amazing imo.

Are you saying it sounds "broken" in Bypass or Focus?

Yep. I'm likely the only one on here that doesn't use the correction. When I run correction it seemingly only makes only minor changes. And the changes it does make don't sound as good to me. I assumed it would at least help imaging, but it actually doesn't image as well in any correction mode. And I've tried various numbers of samplings, and all the other recommendations. Bypass just always seem to work best. And I've noticed a slight difference in output level between corrected and bypass. I've leveled that in the comparisons. So that isn't a factor. In my set-up my Ulfs are relatively near the walls/corner. I really thought correction would help because of that. But the imaging is pretty spectacular as-is. It actually startles people at times. The new GRing cables are even improving on that. Especially the image depth.

I think the technology in the Tektons seem to make the Room Perfect obsolete lol?

I would love to think that. But those are fight'n words for some on Agon. We did a lot of playing with tuning the room. I would like to think that made a big difference. Maybe we got it right! Some think the Ulfs need to be in a freaking auditorium to sound good. Total BS.

Agreed @kdude66 It just puts out great signals all on it's own.

@uberwaltz I've actually received a criticism over my HT room layout because nothing could sound good with speakers near a corner. Mine need to be a foot or so from the rear and side walls to clear the screen. We did a bunch of experimentation with sound panels when we built the house and set-up the HT. We overdid the deadning at first but then feel we got it right with bass traps in each corner and deadening panels on the screen wall. Panels on the first reflection points actually narrowed and diffused the sound stage. I was surprised at that.
I was still convinced I had huge issues from all the feedback despite not hearing any or seeing a problem in RTA testing. But I bought the Lyngdorf thinking it would help solve the problem. It did actually solve the problem by indicating I didn't have one! I don't know why my room works for audio as well as it does. But I'd rather be lucky than good.

The grannyring upgraded Teradak power supplies will arrive today. AKA Teradaktals. Bill did a very quick turn-around for me. Thanks!With the recent installation of the HDPlex 400 LPS for the HTPC and the two Teradaktals, I've come to a plateau in development of the system. My Ulfberht center channel will be delivered next Thursday. I can then move all of my B&W speakers to the Family Room. Looking like I'll have the system and listening room like I want it very soon.
I can then move back to my Bullitt Mustang drag car hobby. I got the new motor installation completed and fired it off last week. Track time soon!

The Grannyring Teradaktals are sounding very good. I'm glad I made the upgrade and appreciate Bill doing the modding for me.

Yes. Do the upgrade package. Money well spent unless you're planning to mod the speakers yourself like others have.I used the 2170 with the DIs for several months before upgrading to Ulfberhts. They were awesome. The Ulfs are just a whole different level of awesome. Awsomer? Even the DIs made my B&W 804s sound like poop. I also went through several pretty high-end amps with the DIs before settling on the 2170. And it has PLENTY of power to push the DIs. Some are driving them with 1 watt SET amps satisfactorily. I don't get it, but to each their own.

I'm a bit puzzled on that too. And what amps are you waiting for to go with the MP-50?

MRPPV the Lungdorf just takes the analog and converts it right back to digoal. You would likely have better results keeping it digital but running it through a digital processor prior to the Lungdorf as I and some others do.

What amp do you have pushing the 805s now?

Caphill I'm not familiar with the other amp, but I am familiar with the B&Ws. I still have a pair of 804s. If you're looking for the best sound improvement for a $5k investment, I would replace the 805s. That may be a bit too much honesty on my part. If so, I apologize.

No. I didn't say you could purchase the 804s for $5k. I said you can purchase speakers that sound much better than the 805s for less than $5k. In fact, you can purchase speakers that sound much better than my 804s for much less than $5k. I know. I've done it. But this isn't the thread for a speaker discussion. Just wanted to clarify my earlier comments since you asked.
Back to your original question... since I've never heard any of the other amps you've mentioned, I wouldn't venture a guess as to if the Lyngdorf would improve the sound of the 805s or not vs them. All I can offer is my experience with my B&Ws. The 2170 did sound better with my 804s vs a number of different amps I auditioned side by side prior to settling on the 2170.

I have Tekton Ulfberhts. There aren't many speakers more efficient than those. The 2170 is stunning with them at low gain. The sound never really changes across the output levels. Which I assume is the characteristic you're most interested in. But the 2170 will drive you out of the room at anything approaching -10. One day I'm going to push it to Zero just to say I've been there. Sort of like top-ending your sports car on an empty highway somewhere. ;-)

@cal3713 I also find my system sounds better with no room processing in the Lyngdorf. But contrary to your experience I get excellent imaging across the stage and at all frequencies. Could be the speakers, rooms, or some combination of those that makes is work and sound so well for me.
@mac48025 I had a trial LTA system with my Tektons. It sounded great and is basically the only tube amp manufacture I would consider. But head to head with my 2170, the Lyngdorf sounded more dynamic and natural to me and everyone else I put through blind testing with my Tektons. But that's just my experience.

+1 on what Grannyring said above. I have a DIY HT Computer with an external linear PS and SOTM USB output card. That feeds an iFI Micro iUSB3 and then to the 2170. I have Windows 10 customized for Audio and use Roon/Tidal and a SS Drive for my FLAC files ripped with dbpoweramp. It took a LOT of experimentation to come to that signal path including much more expensive devices than I finally settled on. My wife and my daughter, both with super human hearing, often threaten me if I start talking about changing anything again.

I am also using the 400 watt HDPLEX external LPS with my HTPC rig. I am also using separate LP supplies to power the internal SOTM USB card and the iFI Micro USB that were recommended by and upgraded for me by Grannyring. Power supplies DO make a difference.

Yes. From the iFI to the Lyngdorf USB module.
One of the surprises for me is the iFI module. It was chosen over the Muteck, the SOTM-USBUltra, UltraRendu and some other solutions of much higher cost. We just kept going back to the iFI.

Grannyring I can't find any info searching for a Perfect Path Ecard. Can you give me a URL please? You phrased that like you were modding the iFI. Are you tinkering with those now? Highly interested!

Dang grannyring, this makes the Tekton discussion look like a group hug.
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/new-tweak-its-fantastic

So from day one my 2170 had a problem where if you put it in standby, most of the time it would not come out of standby mode without turning if off on the back and sometimes without unplugging it from the mains. Even after adding a voltage conditioner. I normally leave it on anyway, but it seems every time I'm out of town, and the wife wants to use it, it's gone into standby and won't turn on. Others on this thread have had this problem too. Lyngdorf, up until now, has just blown-off this question. But I tried again and got this answer...

"Sorry to learn of your problems - and we recommend that you turn to your dealer for arranging the repair of your amplifier

We have experienced a similar problem, where the amplifier had problems in starting up due to a communication error between the boards. This caused the amplifier to stay inactive with the Lyngdorf logo on the display. If this is the case with your amplifier, please inform your dealer, when arranging the service. "
So that is my PSA for the day. If you've had this problem, it isn't a figment of your imagination.

First, big kudos to Tony at Ellington HIFI...

A while back I posted a continuing problem I've had with my 2170. If put into standby, it rarely would come out without cycling the power. Lyngdorf denied this problem as theirs, despite others that have seen a similar result. Finally a few weeks ago Lyngdorf acknowledged they discovered what was causing this.
Tony at Ellington HIFI took the lead to return my unit despite the fact he didn't sell it to me. The dealer in Austin has gone out of business. THANKS TONY! A really good guy to deal with on Lyngdorf and other products.
Tony secured free shipping to Lyngdorf for the repair and the unit is now on it's way back. Hopefully with the problem solved.
Despite a bit of frustration on it taking this long to realize the problem by Lyngdorf, they did stand up and do the right thing with the free repair and shipping. Thank you!

Final post on this, I hope! My 2170 was returned to Lyngdorf for repair of a problem I've had from day one. It often would not come out of standby unless I cycled the power. Lyngdorf finally figured out what the problem after denying they had one and repaired mine at no charge including shipping. It now seems to work correctly. And again, thanks to Tony at Ellington HIFI for stepping up and handling this process when the dealer I purchased it from sold itself and no longer was Lyngdorf authorized. Please give Tony a shot at your business. After listening to my top-end Denon HT amp for a while, I now appreciate the Lyngdorf even more. I am spoiled.

I agree that speakers always influence the sound the most. Followed by the room. But the amp will influence the sound of any speaker. I auditioned the Lyngdorf against other amps including LTA. LTA is the best tube amp on the market IMHO because I hate second order distortion sound and it's tranformerless design minimizes that. Also tested against some pretty high end Class A offerings. I'm puzzled how you would gravitate away from this amp. Well actually I do understand. If you are use to tube distortion or Class A distortion, you probably won't like undistorted sound of the Lyngdorf. I gravitate toward the Lyngdorf because it's the closest to a "wire with gain" I've ever experience.

My impression of that statement is, a Lyngdorf is capable of correcting an untreated room to level that it will sound better than competitors where the room has treatment. Not, if you have a treated room, don't use a Lyngdorf. A treated room should require less room correction by the Lyngdorf. In fact my 2170 is in a fully treated room and I actually don't use roomperfect at all. The Lyngdorf sounds awesome in it with no correction. IMHO the less signal processing required, the better. But if you need proecessing, RoomPerfect works extremely well.

Didn't work that way in my room. But as we know, every room is different. Why don't you try it both ways, as I did, and decide what you like. Room Perfect may be the only correction system that may be able to pull this off. But it seems to me, not having the system try to eliminate areas of cancellation electronically vs suppressing the waves to start with, has to be harder on the speakers. All I know is my room has very good imaging all the way across the sound stage. It actually startles people. Now a lot I attribute to my speakers, which is another variable in the whole situation. Hopefully yours will sound better untreated. More money Lyngdorf saves you! So far you don't need a five figure D/A or expensive room treatment. The amp just paid for itself.

What grannyring said I totally agree with. And I will emphasize the need to evaluate equipment in your listening environment. You have zero idea what's going on with the set-up at that dealer. He apparently has a demo 2170. Take it home and listen to it.