why do people feel the need to buy expensive cable

Because they have big investments in their systems and are concerned the wires would be the bottleneck otherwise.

My recollection from retail sales days is that historically all wires tended to be mostly profit to help compensate for the fact that there was little profit in selling electronics. I doubt much has changed except that more people realize the profit in wires versus other gear and jumped on the bandwagon.

Speakers were the next highest profit margin items in general, usually 100%, not unreasonable in order for a store to be able to make a profit because there was little or non to be had selling electronics.

Just look at the prices of wires at BEst Buy even today and it seems things have not changed much. Nowadays, profit is mostly in services, like in cell phone service as opposed to the cost of buying the actual phone.

If you gotta have it, you gotta have it. Profit margins should not deter you. People have to make a living somehow.

I feel the need to hear really good systems with really expensive gear including wires just so I know what they sound like as a "reference" and what I might be missing otherwise.

But I have yet to feel the need to buy any of it.

I have felt the need to make some changes and do some "upgrades" afterwards, but always for a fraction of the cost that the reference systems I heard would have cost.

I'm not saying mine is as good or not. Only that I get as much enjoyment out of my stuff these days as I do from the "very best" when I hear it. For whatever the reason. Probably just me. Same true in comparison to most live performances I hear even though I know my stereo could never reproduce the best of those accurately. But as long as I can close my eyes and believe I am hearing something real, I am happy.

Major breakthrough on this thread though. Most agree all wires do not sound the same. I'll buy that. That's progress whenever people tend to agree on most anything these days.

Obviously not everyone with a lot of money spends it on expensive wires. Its an interesting question how much or which ones are worth it, but not why do people buy them. People spend money on lots of things that others would consider wasteful. Nothing new really there. I doubt there will ever be any broad consensus that megabuck wires are smart buys, not that it really matters. But if you have the money and nothing better to do with it, why not? Especially if you do not care what other people might think.

jam,

Which ones and how much?

if you are starting with "stock" quality cords, there is a good chance you might do similarly better with something else you could afford.

I've found that to be true using pangea cords on my line level gear. Those will not break the bank. There are others I have taken notice of that might as well that others could probably expound on better.

EBM clearly can afford "the best". Good for him! This means he does not get paid per word written here of course. Or if he does he gets paid a lot per word. :^}

EBM may be Donald Trump. Who knows?

Stop worrying about me so much. I'll be fine.

"Audio cheapskate"

Here comes the name calling.

No Geoff I'm still not going to buy any of your cheapo charlatamica garbage.

So keep your smart --- comments to yourself please and do us all a favor. Go splurge and tweak up your beloved portable disc player or something.

Geof just likes to tease and agitate the audiophiles. Seems to be a hobby. His brand is his way of making it official. Some would call it trolling. I wouldn't waste too much time having a serious discussion with him. 👹

I have no doubt that there is HUGE profit in the minimalist designed DNM Reson ICs that I use exclusively these days. But they are reasonably affordable (on teh grand scale of high end audio things) and I can clearly hear the difference they make compared to the others I have tried so there you go.

Same true with Pangea power Cords I use on pre-amp and DAC except the build quality of these is quite substantial and seems to at least somewhat justify the modest on the grand scale of things cost.

For TOSLINK/SPDIF digital cables, I know of and hear nothing to justify any extra expense, as long as they are of good build quality. Amazon basic models do just fine for practically nothing and at a fraction of the cost of similar wires at Best Buy even.

The jury is still out for me in regards to digital USB cables...not enough data points under my belt yet with hifi USB to say, though I am skeptical great expense is needed for top notch results there.

My experience has been that not only are all wires not created equal, but it matters more or less even depending on the specific type and use. Its hard to predict what will work best or provide best value. Throwing money at the problem is easier sometimes perhaps and may help or not but will almost certainly NOT yield the best value in the end, if that is what matters. Continual trial and error with various more modest cost options (especially if used or via a company that specializes in helping people find the RIGHT wires, not just a particular make/model) is the way I would recommend for most interested in excellent performance but at modest cost.

"Having said that, the skeptic in me was not prepared for what "wires" can do. "

No doubt, but the key word is "can". What they will actually do in each case can be very hard to predict, even with the same wire used.

It largely depends on what you start with. Not just what wire gets replaced, but the quality of the power supply portion of the unit used with. Some may be so good already that a better cord makes little or no difference. or in some cases, a power cord might serve a shielding function against RFi and/or EMI noise, but neither of those are necessarily a problem to start with in all cases.

So like most things, it all depends.

Even more reason not to drop big bucks on a wire even if you hear a difference in a demo, unless teh demo is with YOUR gear. If its satisfaction guaranteed or money back, then there is little risk. But it is a very unpredictable thing to invest in. You never know until you try at which point you and your $$$s have already parted.

A corollary to that is if a product is GUARANTEED by the seller to deliver certain results, the guarantee had best include a money back option if not as well. Otherwise, start sniffing for some snake oil.

"Why do some people insist on telling others how to spend their money?"

I agree. But nothing wrong with discussing controversial topics that matter and being an educated buyer. If that means buying $5000 wires for someone, so be it.

I do believe that effective shielding against noise IS perhaps the most valuable function that any wire can provide that is most likely to make a difference in sound quality in many cases. I've found Pangea 14 series to accomplish this most effectively, as designed and advertised. I'm sure many others do as well. Its not rocket science and need not cost a fortune IMHO.

The fact that Pangea and I am sure others CAN accomplish this for fairly modest cost is something worth noting.

The difference in performance between a $205000 Ferrari and an every man's Toyota is pretty clear.

The difference in performance between various wires is often not so clear. Other than price.

That's the difference.

I agree people can and should feel good about buying whatever they want. If they are happy in the end, all is well.

So its a reasonable answer to say the reason they do it is to make themselves happy, whatever the cost.

Audiophiles are notoriously hard to please when it comes to the toys they love most.

So there you go.

The merits of one cable versus another and the value proposition is a much different and more complicated story.

So there you go.

An easy path and a harder one.....

"Mapman, obsess much about what other folks spend on audio? "

Not at all. Absolutely zero. I didn't ask the question. Just offering my opinions like everyone else, dear.

Jimmywho gets it. 🏆

It's always about system synergy starting with the room.

Wires come last once all the rest is tuned in.

If things are tackled in the right order biggest fish first then finding the right wires should not be nearly as hard.

If things are off to start with only so much to gain out of different wires. You could end up spending money on wires that would have been better served elsewhere before.

No manufacturer will knowingly publish something that might limit sales. That's why most speaker makers understate what power is needed for best performance. It would scare off potential customers in many cases if they told them how much power was needed for optimal performance.

I saw this heaDLINE TODAY:

"'COLOSSAL WASTE': US spent $43M to build $500,000 Afghan gas station"

That's 86X too much it would seem.

Geoff my point is that vendor specs are usually specified loosely because if used teh results will often at least satisy most people. That's different than specifying what is needed for best performance in order to satisfy audiophiles.

Maybe some high end companies do, but most vendors overall do not If they do, they limit their market to a select few and must price higher accordingly in order to make enough profit off of fewer units sold.

Just saying that proper application of specifications will likely lead to decent but not optimal results.

"Listening to music next to someone you love can make the music sound better than any equipment upgrade."

Quote of the year perhaps.

The "I just can't stand country music, and that's about all she wants to listen to" blues.....

My wife and I like a lot of teh same kinds of music best, but she is not as adventurous as me. Whenever I play King Crimson, it makes her want to climb the wall. And most modern day Flaming Lips, Motorhead, etc. is right out.

I'm hoping for some "Trickle Down Economics" on this topic as well.

One can hope...

My relatively cheapo wires by some standards sound fine to me. So maybe something trickled already.

Mamboni probably has more experience in all aspects of music including listening than most anyone in these parts.

There are many ways to tweak effectively but I'd think twice before discounting what he said.  It makes perfect sense.

Two different ways to tweak in my opinion. Very much a matter of preference and goals. However with good quality modern digital processing technology its very quantified, measured and reliable to an extent not possible otherwise. Like most things in audio many ways to slay the beast effectively for someone who knows what they are doing.

Maybe when people get to a certain point the feeling is the only way to move forward is to spend more.  

Also so remember that no change in sound is better than a real one if the real one is for the worse.  

no doubt one cannot take the human factors out of the equation.  If a hifi plays and there is no one to hear it what does it sound like?  🤔

Some cable sound similar.  Some much more different.  How much usually varies case by case for many reasons.

The devil is always in the details.   it helps to avoid generalizations that do not always apply.