Yes indeed Pat. You have some sweet speakers yourself!
The Atlanta Phasure/L7 or L4 Lampi shootout will be forthcoming...:) |
The Phasure eats it alive using PCM. Its closer via DSD but the Phasure is still clearly better.
I have the Phasure NOS1 DAC here, as well as many other DACs.
Prior to the Phasure the best sound I had heard was DSD using the Playback.
This just proves the fact that "best component" is only a synergy between all components in a given audio system. :-) Well said Alex. Can we infer then that the Phasure dac is not eating your dac alive? Are you using the all-important software and computer as a pre-ampless transport. Bruce Bowen found that the Phasure on its lonesome was not the rockstar its groupies claim it to be. |
In my opinion, the "best DAC" would be the one that works in Pure DSD mode (that means converts PCM to DSD as well), and does not use D/A conversion chips which send/upsample DSD through Delta/Sigma modulators.
Lastly, there shouldn't be any solid state components on the signal path, after the DSD D/A conversion (usually an FIR filter).
Now, that is really hard to find. :-) The Lampizator DSD dac has some of those design elements in place according to Lucas and his disciples. Bruce Bowen has done a shootout recently with the 15K PD dac and it compared favorably. The Phasure eats it alive using PCM. Its closer via DSD but the Phasure is still clearly better.
Prior to the Phasure the best sound I had heard was DSD using the Playback. Bhobba, which PD dac was demoed? The 3 or the 5? According to everyone in the know, PCM is not its strong suite, so any comparison is strawmanish especially if you have no equivalent digital transport and software upstream. This seems to be one area where Peter and the Phasure dac seems to excel and pull ahead of the pack. I heard from someone that the Trinity Dac has the typical cold brighter German sound. That is not what I have read about it so far (http://cybwiz.blogspot.com/2013/03/trinity-dac.html; http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?12023-Trinity-DAC). It sounds like a pretty serious piece of gear. While I agree that cost does not ALWAYS track with performance, the Audioexotics crowd are almost insufferable in their testing and regularly have access to the best in rooms and systems that are SOTA. Not the typical cheezeball like myself in the US dispensing wisdom from my vintage recliner in a musty basement. Its all about exposure and frame of reference. The Trinity has multiple proprietary elements (with associated patents) and a designer with a serious pedigree. It also has some architectural similarities to the Phasure in terms of stacked 1704s, so I would be surprised by any reports of being cool sounding. Its price is too rich for my blood but if you are the type of guy who has an unlimited budget, why not? More power to them. I know there was a shootout scheduled between the Trinity dac and the Lampizator L7 in Hong Kong on the 22nd but I have not heard anything yet. There is also one planned between the Phasure and Lampi L4 or possibly L7 in Atlanta sometime in Jan. Still awaiting a formal commitment from the southern fried Phasure devote. There is obviously a lot of good dac data coming down the pike. Should be fun. Just have to try and leave the audio egos at the door..... |
Lloyd, I was thinking about your digital front end and your intonations early in this thread about the old equipment itch. I think you should be very pleased with yourself. Digital front ends come and go like the wind in most systems. Few manufacturers make dacs that people seem to hold onto. Audionote and Zanden are two that come to mind. You have a fabulous foundation that is imminently tweakable and has made music for 6 years. Bravo. It is VERY hard to find digital that lays down down analog goodness in a realistic manner.
All that being said, the best dac I have "heard" is the Light Harmonic DaVinci. Sadly, the price is a little dear these days... |
Thanks Bill for the detailed post. I look forward to hearing a formal report of the shootout down under. I share your sentiments about digital music reproduction. A recent Audioshark review of the Lumin transport put it best: Digital sucks. There, I said it. To be honest, I really dont want to dislike my digital because it is so convenient, but vinyl has always sounded better in my system. Those close to me know I have been on a DAC merry-go-round for several years now. I have cycled through so many DACs that Ive lost count and too embarrassed to say, but it is somewhere around 20. In that time, I have had the pleasure of owning or trying some wonderful sounding DACs, but in the end, they always drove me back to vinyl as my preferred source.
To me, computer audio has always produced this edge, this hyper resolving presentation which often creates listener fatigue. Sonic characteristics which have always sent me running for my turntable.
In addition, with computer audio you have the added frustration and expense of dealing with a Windows PC or Mac. As someone who works on a computer all day, the last thing I want to be bothered with in my listening room is virus scans, fighting adware, phishing attacks or worrying about the latest software update or new version of the operating systems. I just want to listen. Digital does indeed suck. There is always something ever so slightly askew. I don't own a vinyl rig, but in those escapist moments, my subconscious mind dreams of some big brass platter. A lot of the "solutions" for sale seem to fall short and somehow desecrate the music. Not just absence of fatigue but lifelike dynamics and energy. That is a razor's edge. Many NOS or tube dacs fails in that department. Reclockers fail. Upsampling fails. Hi rez and DSD fails. Your observations about transports are also spot on. I have told people (and myself) that the transport game is as hard as the dac element. I am interested to see where that all goes in the next 2-3 years with the entrance of Sony back into the game, Lumin, etc. It does seem like there are a lot of promising pieces coming down the pike. The Trinity dac is making waves over at Audioexotics: (http://www.audioexotics.hk/index.php?option=com_simplestforum&view=postlist&forumId=1&parentId=10845&topic=true&Itemid=53) where it panned a dcd stack. Phasure is starting to get more traction and formal exposure in the US is growing (http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f10-music-servers/whos-tried-phasure-nos1-digital-analogue-converter-18457/). We have a shootout planned with the Lampizator in Atlanta in late Jan/early Feb. There is also a gentleman in Hong Kong who now owns Phasure, a Lampi L5 with DSD, and a DCS stack. A formal shootout is still pending. The Lampizator L7 is making waves in Hong Kong (http://www.review33.com/m/forum_msg.php?db=1&tstart=0&s=&topic=47121019144020&start=20&sort=&number=59) and has been competitive with big dollar tables. We are still waiting for a comparison with the Trinity. Finally, your description of the Killer dac sounds.....killer. I am a fan of that chip. DDDAC, a DIY outfit from German (http://www.dddac.de), made quite a splash with their kit based on that chip (and more recently on the 1794). People have traded in big dollar rigs for those cheap kits. The report is that it sounds like music and NOT digital. I look forward to hearing how this whole things shapes up. |
Charles, most people who own SOTA vinyl and digital concurrently favor vinyl (Mike L. for example). Beyond that, people I trust who have nothing to sell still feel master tape is king. If digital works for you, great. Its a matter of goals and expectations. Its getting closer though as this and other threads indicate which is exciting.
Good suggestions Alex. I would be interested to hear that outcome.... |
Charles, my digital rig is very good but I will most likely be getting a L7 Lampizator. The issue with digital for me is by and large recording quality. You can listen to VanHalen on vinyl (which I did as a 12 yr old) while the digital version is garbage. Digital tends to pigeonhole the listener a little more and thus the existence of "audiophile" recordings, hi rez, DSD, etc.
I am also to some degree the prisoner of my OCD quest for that "live" sound. Pretty or pleasant sounding hifi puts me to sleep. My room or system delivers the closest I have heard to that sound in a home setting, and in that regard, it is a stunning achievement for Starsound. On the flip side, EVERY change is audible for better or for worse. I will get there though. What you will hear at CES will hopefully be a taste of the sort of "digital" that will inhabit my room in the not too distant future. |
Bill, the ML3 Reference speakers sound very interesting and evokes thoughts of Dale Pitcher's speakers. Once you hear a probably grounded box (aka no box), there is no going back.... |
Speaking of the world's best dac, the shootout between the Lampizator L7 and Trinity dac never took place as a "demo" unit was unavailable. I do understand from a business perspective that having a dac that costs substantially less being competitive is not good. Comparing it to a dcs stack is a "safer" comparison....:) |
Lloyd, I am aiming to snag a Lampizator 7 when my CFO wifey allows me to do so..... |
Dvavc, it was a decision based mostly on intuition. I know it's a sacrilegious thing for an audiophile to admit that, but it's true. I am at heart an "analog guy," and the L7 is, by all reports, one of the closest analogs of analog in the digital domain.
I am also lazy. In my 20s, I loved playing IT boy and fiddling. Now, with young kids and a busy life, I have zero interest. If you spend any amount of time on the NOS-1 threads, you will know what I mean by this disinclination.
The shootout in Atlanta has not materialized. It still might, but frankly, at this point, I have little desire to attend.
On a side note,I am actively researching turntables, and am looking at snagging a Triangle table as well to round out and complete my front end. I know this is contradictory in light of my comments about the Phasure, but I am continually drawn to the sound of vinyl. It was ironically my primary source as a young kid and preteen, and I am looking to return to my musical roots. |
Dvavc, I will let you know in about 2-3 months when I get it. I agree about LPs, but I would like to own both to allow access to music I enjoy. I too have been scratching around for a "miracle dac" as you say. We will see. I was eyeballing the Reiymo CDP a few years back. Fairly Gucci stuff. I cannot speak to the build quality of the big7. Are you in the US? |
12-12-14: Dvavc
Hey, Agear, Couple of month passed.) So, what sup doc, did you get it? Should I dispose my analog rig and buy Lampizator?)))
BTW, i've heard it once at the show, but you know the sound of the show
plus different transport speakers etc
Hence, I couldnt tell anything.( Hey Dvavc, thanks for circling back. Did you hear the L7 at the NY show? If so, you heard it with my current speakers (Mosaic Audio Illuminations). Those speakers suck for the first 3-4 months due to the torturous nature of the break in cycle of their custom inductors. Think thin and brittle with no bass. The pair at that show were not broken in at all and thus were a poor representation of both the speaker and the dac. I received the dac about 2 months ago. UPS thrashed it, and it needed to be salvaged back in Poland. From my brief exposure to it (on Illuminations that are broken in and in a dedicated sound room), it delivered an "analog" presentation with fluidity and fullness that should make most vinyl heads happy. I have heard from several L7 owners that it is comparable to vinyl. I do not own a dedicated vinyl rig and thus cannot offer a side by side comparison. If you are in NY, there are multiple owners of that dac. Worth a listen in a rig that is properly dialed in. |
