A true believer

To Tubegroover:
'A simple question to you, do you really believe that all amplifiers sound alike?'
I believe all properly designed solid state amps sound alike. I think Hirsch stated it that way also. Tubes amps are a different story. If you like distortion go tube.

'He was the voice of the flat earthers of audio. Even back in those days when I was a music enthusiast, not an audiophile I found most of his reviews useless.'

what an arrogant statement!!! YOU found his reviews useless?? Why? Because he didn't say the nonsense you wanted to hear? Are you saying there is a difference between a music 'enthusiast' and an audiophile? hmmmmm.

'The same bs every month with the same measurements and the same conclusions, what was the point?'

what was he supposed to do? change the measurements? state conclusions based on nothing? I guess he didn't talk enough about soundstage, detail,grain and all the rest of the voodoo agenda.

'Have you ever really listened? You do a lot of pontificating but you really haven't said much about your experience listening.'

I have been listening since my father brought home the 78's off the 'seebergs' and juke boxes. 99% noise and static and clicks and pops, but I listened. I have been listening since 1947. I remember most of the music, none of the equipment. I listened as a member of the high school band, I listened as a memeber of my college concert band. I listen to LPs and 45s and reel to reel and cassettes and now I listen to CDs. I remember the music, the equipment has faded with time.

'but other than what you believe about wire, which many on this site agree with, I'm not too sure these same folks would put themselves in the Hirsh camp concerning amplifiers so long as amp/speaker interface is in line. If he's your guru good for you, stay there and be happy but to me you are a rookie who adds nothing more than entertainment value in your posts. Have a nice day! ;^)'

I mostly only comment on wire. I have a million questions, but no one is interested. I don't really care where most folks put themselves. I know the truth when I hear it and I act on the truth. I think I have stated on several previous post that I was a rookie when it came to high-end audio, or audio in general for that matter. I lay claim to no knowledge about anything. But I hope you weren't trying to insult me bying saying i'm just comic relief. :) If you think i'm comical, I suggest you read 99% of the posts on this site. I know my input is not as weighty as 'what time do you wear', or 'why don't more people like high-end audio?' when I read that title I roll on the floor. :)
But I will admit I was a little surprised at your tone. I thought you were one of the smart ones.
you have a nice day also.

To Rodman99999
'Are those that can tell you things like what year a grape was grown, in what part of France, and(specifically): what field,'

Now, that is a skill every audiophile should have!!

There are those that have trained their palates, and taste buds, to discern things others cannot. Likewise; Aural Acuity, system refinement/resolution, quality of source materials, listening room/speaker system tuning, familiarity with the sound of live instruments/vocals, in an actual acoustic, and one's attentions/training, vary greatly(if they exist AT ALL).

you can say that again!! Where did you learn all these big words? It took me an hour to get thru your post. Had to look up every word.

I could cite other factors that would impact whether or not one might be able to hear the differences in cables, like one's concrete opinions(thoroughly mixed up, and permanently set), but- I don't want to hear any more loose quotes from Shakespeare. Happy listening!

Who the hell is Shakespeare?? Does he make wire?

happy listening and tasting to you also :)

"what an arrogant statement!!! YOU found his reviews useless?? Why? Because he didn't say the nonsense you wanted to hear? Are you saying there is a difference between a music 'enthusiast' and an audiophile? hmmmmm"

My point rok2id is that I found a redundancy to his commentary that proved to be quite boring over time and I stopped subscribing, probably in the mid 70. The difference between a music enthusiast and an audiophile. Well this is a bit more complicated because I believe there are many music enthusiasts that are not audiophiles and many audiophiles that are not really music enthusiasts. An audiophile by general definition might be described as one that is focused on the "sound" of reproduced music.

"But I hope you weren't trying to insult me bying saying i'm just comic relief. :) If you think i'm comical, I suggest you read 99% of the posts on this site. I know my input is not as weighty as 'what time do you wear', or 'why don't more people like high-end audio?' when I read that title I roll on the floor. :)"

Well, if the shoe fits, live with it:) No all I'm saying is that you continuously harp on the same points but I'm not too sure you have had the experience of listening as some on this site have, thats all especially if you think all amplifiers sound the same. A Threshold sounds like a Krell, or Spectral sounds like a Boulder? come on now....the differences may not be apparent to you but they certainly are to those that can differentiate and are willing to pay, who's arrogant? Me?

"I mostly only comment on wire. I have a million questions, but no one is interested. I don't really care where most folks put themselves."

Yes, you have a million questions and you keep on asking, often sarcastically I might add. As I've stated before, I personally don't care what anyone believes about wire. I'm sure some don't hear differences and in many cases neither do I but as I've stated before, some will agree and some disagree, I have heard BIG differences in wire in profoundly negative as well as positive examples. Why not quit asking questions as to the science which has been pounded to death. After all, how can a wire that simply passes a signal make an effect on sound? To some it does, to others it doesn't to some in some cases yes, to others in all cases no. You just have to listen for yourself but as I have previously stated as well, the differences will be more profound the more resolving the system. This is one area where questions can't be answered, you have to listen and make your own conclusions.

Yada yada about playing in bands, listening to recorded. Many of us have as well. I don't place any value on my experience playing music since I was 10 to the present as having any value on what I hear in reproduced audio. Playing in a band or as a musician is not the way you hear it when you hear as a listener as opposed to participant. Listening not playing (performing) is the benchmark for me. I have been to countless concerts of all genres of music over the years, from bars, coffee houses, outdoor arenas, indoor areas, churches, schools, opera houses, auditoriums, any kind of venue you can name. It is the way live music sounds, the characteristics that make it sound live that makes ME an audiophile, trying to capture that, it is elusive for sure but it is what drives me, not Julian Hirsh, Len Feldman, JG Holt, Harry Pearson or any of them. It is the search for the truth as I hear it, not what I am told or read.

Over time there are people I come to respect and trust whether it be audiophiles or rag reviewers. It is for the consistency of what they hear, not necessarily their tastes, this is most important but nothing is more important than listening for yourself. If you are satisfied with what you are hearing thats fine but cut it with the PT Barnum malarky and try a new line, you still have the same audience:)

It took you an hour, to get through my post and you STILL completely missed the point of my comparison? SO- you are BOTH illiterate, and comprehensively challenged? A pity! The amp comparison you refer to, actually involved an OTL tube amp, a Hi-End SS, and a $220.00 Jap receiver(Jan '87 Stereo Review- 'Do All Amps Sound Alike?'), all of which differed from each other in measured performance and design as one could possibly assemble. You mention, in one of your lengthy/vapid diatribes, "Tubes amps are a different story. If you like distortion go tube." It's obvious that, even by YOUR impared judgement, the listeners that Stereo Repuke assembled WERE DEAF, or(at least) did not know HOW to listen. You were loosely quoting Shakespeare when you replied, "I think you do protest toooooo much!"(Silly me to think you so cultured, as to realize) Sorry, if I used too many multisyllabic words in this post. Grab a dictionary, and I'm certain even you, capable of muddling through it.

'My point rok2id is that I found a redundancy to his commentary that proved to be quite boring over time and I stopped subscribing,.

If the man said all amps sounded the same, why would you expect his commentary to be so diverse. redundant / same there is a connection.

'I believe there are many music enthusiasts that are not audiophiles and many audiophiles that are not really music enthusiasts. An audiophile by general definition might be described as one that is focused on the "sound" of reproduced music.'

I agree. I have said so in previous post. I call them gadget people. I like equipment, but I listen to and for the music. Some attribute every thing they hear to a component, I don't, I praise or blame the cd or the speaker / room thingy.

'I'm saying is that you continuously harp on the same points but I'm not too sure you have had the experience of listening as some on this site have, thats all especially if you think all amplifiers sound the same.'

I have no basis to criticize systems I have not heard. My ideas about wire are system independent. I have never been critical of anyone's system, I admire most of them because they are all more elaborate and beautiful than mine. So, since there is no knowledge or information to be gained on this site, I do tend to harp on the same thing.
I don't understand your point about being able to hear wire SOMETIMES. Why just sometime. If it can be heard, should be always.

'Yada yada about playing in bands, listening to recorded. Many of us have as well. I don't place any value on my experience playing music since I was 10 to the present as having any value on what I hear in reproduced audio. Playing in a band or as a musician is not the way you hear it when you hear as a listener as opposed to participant. Listening not playing (performing) is the benchmark for me.'

I will allow you to restate this. I assume you spoke in haste. It seems as if you are saying musicians don't know how to listen to music. I played as an adult, not age 10. Maybe musicians just know what to listen for. One of the old mags had a feature where they featured systems owned by famous music artist. very, very interesting. No krell:)

'If you are satisfied with what you are hearing thats fine but cut it with the PT Barnum malarky and try a new line, you still have the same audience:)'

I was not aware I have an audience. It was not my intention. If p.t. were alive today, he would be the largest wire manufacturer in the world. hahahahaha And I do respect you and many others on this site. In fact I must say that most of the people I have 'met' here have been outstanding folks. I never get mad or upset. As the General told the sgt maj in 'Good Morning Vietnam" Hell, its only audio. he said radio but the point is the same.
just remember in the future, I have no idea what i'm talking about. So you can all relax.
good listening