Very interesting thread.I agree with Kris about the NOS tubes, but if the Tenors were stock, then the Berning should be also.If the Tenors had tube upgrades, then the Berning was at a disadvantage with the stock Russian tubes. I know NOS tubes made a great difference in my Berning. What kind of tubes are in the Tenors? I essentially agree with Mike that the Tenors should come out on top, given the price disparity, and maybe the higher price included better tubes. I do think that a better comparison would bave been the Berning Seigfried 300b SET ZOTL. The zh270 is a push/pull amp with feedback and that circuit is not quite up to the Tenors' circlotron. The fact that it even got into the ball park is quite a testament to its quality. Most listeners would prefer a single ended sound to a push/pull. I notice no mention of a transformer induced ring, phase shift, or treble rollof by the reviewers about the Berning. So regardless of the argument about OTL/nonOTL the Berning apparently did not exhibit these typical transformer induced characteristics. Mike, we appreciate this shootout you did, as it gives us the chance to gain info from your experience.
Amp shootout.....Tenor 75wi verses Berning ZH270
in a recent thread there was much discusion of the above 2 amps, whether the Berning was indeed an OTL, and which one might be better.
i have no opinion as to whether the Berning is an OTL. but today a Berning ZH270 owner brought his amp over to compare to my pair of Tenor 75wi's. my system is OTL friendly, with easy to drive speakers, so the Berning's acknowledged advantage in driving difficult loads was neutralized.
these amps have very similar power, the Tenor is 75 watts into 8 ohms, the Berning is 70 watts into 8 ohms. otherwise it is not really a fair comparison....the Tenors are $19900 a pair, the Berning $4500, the Tenors weigh 70 pounds each, the Berning weighs about 10 pounds.....it seems like Goliath verses David. the result is somewhat closer than that.
we played three different discs and each of 3 people listened to their disc in the sweetspot. the Berning owner felt that the Tenor had a more dimentional sound, deeper soundstage but felt the Berning was equal in bass extension and detail retreival. the independent listener felt the Berning was excellent for the money but not in the league of the Tenor in any paramter. my perception was similar to the independent listner; that the Berning, at $4500, is amazing in it's top to bottom excellence, dynamics and musicality.....but....does not do things like the Tenor. the sense of space, detail in the soundstage, texture and microdynamics of the Tenor are at a whole different level.....and they better be for $15000 more.
like the Berning owners, i am a shameless Tenor lover and consider the Tenors better than any other amp i have heard at any price, assuming a reasonably easy load to drive.
the Berning is more like a $8k to $10k amplifier.....and Berning owners should be justifiably proud of their amps.
i did think the Berning had slightly more bass slam than the Tenor, but with much less bass articulation and extension than the Tenor.
we spent the rest of the enjoyable afternoon listening to some great vinyl......an enjoyable time had by all.
i have no opinion as to whether the Berning is an OTL. but today a Berning ZH270 owner brought his amp over to compare to my pair of Tenor 75wi's. my system is OTL friendly, with easy to drive speakers, so the Berning's acknowledged advantage in driving difficult loads was neutralized.
these amps have very similar power, the Tenor is 75 watts into 8 ohms, the Berning is 70 watts into 8 ohms. otherwise it is not really a fair comparison....the Tenors are $19900 a pair, the Berning $4500, the Tenors weigh 70 pounds each, the Berning weighs about 10 pounds.....it seems like Goliath verses David. the result is somewhat closer than that.
we played three different discs and each of 3 people listened to their disc in the sweetspot. the Berning owner felt that the Tenor had a more dimentional sound, deeper soundstage but felt the Berning was equal in bass extension and detail retreival. the independent listener felt the Berning was excellent for the money but not in the league of the Tenor in any paramter. my perception was similar to the independent listner; that the Berning, at $4500, is amazing in it's top to bottom excellence, dynamics and musicality.....but....does not do things like the Tenor. the sense of space, detail in the soundstage, texture and microdynamics of the Tenor are at a whole different level.....and they better be for $15000 more.
like the Berning owners, i am a shameless Tenor lover and consider the Tenors better than any other amp i have heard at any price, assuming a reasonably easy load to drive.
the Berning is more like a $8k to $10k amplifier.....and Berning owners should be justifiably proud of their amps.
i did think the Berning had slightly more bass slam than the Tenor, but with much less bass articulation and extension than the Tenor.
we spent the rest of the enjoyable afternoon listening to some great vinyl......an enjoyable time had by all.
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- 101 posts total
- 101 posts total