Tube Equipment: Gimmick?

A typo here. It should have been "top 5% of SS preamp"
Another thing I would like to add is: There is almost nothing new in SS preamp. Most of them use JFET and Op-amp to amplify the signal. However, many manufactures are more focus on the new generation of hybrid tube preamp. I always found the tube has bigger sound stage and better image seperation due to the physical nature of the tube with larger plate ( more information gets transferred ) than the condensed transistor circuits ( more complicated but compressed.)

If you have not heard the top of line tube preamp then you can't really claim that SS preamp is more accurate (it might be true on paper but it is not true in sound.)

For amp, it is another story. I think the top 20% of both tube and SS amp are good. However, the SS counterpart always cost $$$$$. Depends on your speaker requirements, some outrageous power hungry speakers can work better with SS amp. On the other hand, the super high sensitive speakers only work well with tube amp.

Stop attacking each other and make yourself look like a 3 year old bully. No Gimmick in tube equipment. You just need to own both and figure out what your ear and brain want.

It never ceases to amaze me, how the heated threads that stray far from the original persons intent. And turn into insults towards one's personal character, seem to be the threads that last the longest. The guy that started this thread is probably wondering if started WWW3. It never ceases to amaze me how people get completely torqued about someone else's opinion differing from theirs. And what's more is they quickly judge another person's words or character by reading what this person typed. Hmmmmmmm I hope our next job interviewer grants us more grace :)

Slappy, allow me to give you a DEFINITE statement. I am definitely appreciative that have enough confidence in me to speak freely about my character. I will not turn and bite you like a scorpion would :) I am still standing here, waiting to hear what you have to say. As far as a little strange? You might be right, but let me remind you of this. We can only use ourselves to judge another, this is what determines what is " normal or strange " so based on what is ticking inside of you, I am strange. I think the best description I have heard on normal: " It's a cycle on your dryer " Another thought on how we judge is best shared with the way a radio signal is sent. It all depends on the condition of the receiver, and the condition of the sender. If either is on the wrong channel, you have major problems!

Marco, what I said to Slappy, I say to you. Your free to say what you want, am I?

Getting back to tube vs SS. SS does produce distortion!!! I have been a technician long enough to know that every piece of electronic equipment does produce distortion of some kind. And SS does produce fatigue, maybe small enough that you quickly explain it on something else in your life. Is SS more accurate? When BAT first came onto the market their goal was to have SS and tube gear that sounded the same. CJ is another that comes to mind, their SS gear sounds like tube and visa versa.

Oh yes, film is still more accurate than digital. Ask any good photographer :)

Slappy, you need to re-read what I wrote. I said that saying "it is a matter of preference depends on your experience to carry any weight."

You say you have heard good stuff. Tell us what that is. If your "preference" is based on a lack of "experience" with different tube systems then what does that really mean? That's my point. Hearing a couple of tube amps does not mean you know how tube amps sound. The varying design of tube amps is very important. An OTL tube amp does not sound like a transformer coupled tube amp.

Tubes are not more accurate, but they are more real.

I suspect you will be moving along to digital amps next, no?

I agree alot with what Jim2 is saying. I think that much of what people perceive as "tube sound" is really "output transformer sound", since it is the output transformers that are generally creating the rolloff and bloat that some people mistake for "tube sound".

Regarding tube equipment being a "gimmick", it was the original form of audio amplification and was around long before the transistor was invented, so I don't think it can be called a "gimmick". I am of the opinion that properly made tube gear can be the very best sounding equipment possible. There are drastic differences in the sound quality of various tube amplifiers, just as there are drastic differences in the sound quality of various transistor amplifiers. The best of either technology can be very good indeed. At this time, and including all of the many pieces of gear that I've heard so far, I prefer the sound quality of the best tube gear.

Maybe someone can correct me here...

The vast majority of SS amps obtain those low distrotion measurements (note my careful choice of words) by using a significant amount of negative feedback. Sure, this negative feedback makes an amp measure well with a pure 1KHz sine wave, but how does that negative feedback make music sound? I have my opinion...what's yours?

Isn't the negative feedback that makes SS amps measure well actaully "distorting" the music? My AES Sixpacs are configured for 0 db of negative feedback - but I can apply 10 db of negative feedback if I choose to make my amps measure better. However, I choose not to.

There are some SS amps that use zero global negative feedback in their designs (Ayre comes to mind). I have not had an opportunity to audition any of Charles' SS designs, but they do intrigue me.