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Good Amp/Preamp for "bright " Thiel 3.6 speakers ?

I have a pair of Thiel 3.6 speakers that I am quiet fond of. I bought them a few years ago after listening to them on some very expensive equipment at a stereo store. They have been great at home with clean tight bass and exceptional detail. I am finally ready to get a decent amp and preamp to compliment these speakers and I am looking for a recommendation.

The two things that I have learned about these speakers is that they are considered to be Bright and power hungrey. The minumum power required to drive these monsters is 250 watts. I personally would say that they are extremely revealing of any flaws in a system and not "bright". And when paired with the right equipment they are beautiful, clear, and present a remarkable soundstage which is what I love.

So what I am looking for is an Amp / Preamp combo that provides beautiful detail and imaging but no Brightness or Harshness. I need a combo that with amaze me with detail and presentation but will also let me listen for hours without exhausting my ears. The ultimate complement to these speakers.

I have browsed around this site for a few days and have stumbled across the following mainstream equipment but have not been able to make a decision about a single item let alone a pairing.

Bryston amp 4b-st 250w $1,100.00
Rotel amp rb-1090 380w $1,200.00
Krell amp kav-250a 250w $1,350.00
CJ amp mf-250 250w $1,750.00
Bryston amp 4b-sst 300w $1,800.00
Musical Fidelity amp a-308cr 250w $1,900.00
Krell amp kav-2250 250w $2,000.00
Musical Fidelity int nu-vista 300 300w $3,000.00
Musical Fidelity int tri-vista 300 350w $4,200.00
Krell int kav500i $1,700.00

Krell pre kav-280p $1,800.00
Krell pre kav-250p $800.00

I know there are other great pieces out there and I haven't really gotten a feel for the available preamps yet but the conrad johnson preamps have caught my eyes a few times.

I am hoping to spend less that $4000 total and would be happy if I could keep it under $3000.

I haven't decided on a cd player but may end up with a high quality DAC later. For now I just want to get the amp and preamp and then start auditioning cd players.

Thanks for any help you can give me.
montanarane
montanarane OP
8 posts
 
Ok. A lot of brand recommendations and one specific vote for the Conrad Johnson MF-2500A / Premier 16ls mkII or 17LS paring.

Any thoughts from other listeners about selecting this Conrad Johnson equipment to complement the Thiel CS3.6 speakers?

If anyone has a specific Classe combination that they are sure sounds great with the Thiel CS3.6 and still meets my $4K budget that would also be helpful.

I am strongly considering the Musical Fidelity Tri-Vista 300 integrated but have some reservations after reading

"02-27-04: Mahandave
I hate to say something bad about these two products because I like both very much! (love Thiel) I have however listened to this combo at a local dealer and was very un-immpressed to say the least. It was the second most boring and dull system I have ever heard at this price level. And any system including Thiel and boring/dull is saying something. Tone was good to very good, musicality was non existant and dynamics were conjested to the extreme. The trivista SACD was the source in an acousticlly good, medium sized room. Every thing was set up very well by a great tech. guy. I think the problem lies in the thinking behind the designers. They are on opposite sides of the world. Thiel needs lively sound fed into them to show what they can do while Musical Fidelity wants to go easy and smooth- this is just a case of miss match and not poor products I believe. I had to take two of my friends to listen to this set up because I wanted there oppinoin to see if I was nuts but they aggreed with me totally. Sorry- again, get those Thiels but look at different electronics or vice-versa."

Thanks,

Montana Rane
rayhall
393 posts
 
I would suggest Pass Aleph series. These amps are extremely detailed, yet extremely smooth and never bright. They are class A biased and, dare I say, would beat anything that you were contemplating. I would particularly be concerned with the Krell's and to a less extent with the Bryston's. The one problem is that the biggest Pass Aleph is the 1.2 which is rated at only 200 watts/channel. However, class A biased amps tend to sound like many more watts than their class AB cousins. If you can, I would arrange some sort of in-home audition of the 1.2 with your Thiel's. Of course, if you are a smart buyer on Audiogon, you could pick up a pair of 1.2's here at a good price and resell them at no loss or a small profit. They have an excellent resale value as they are recognized as one of the best amps ever made. Even though they may cost more than you are contemplating, these are amps which you may never sell and which may cure the upgrade "itch" insofar as amplifiers are concerned
pops
1,847 posts
 
Alot of 3.6 threads lately, I've had a CJ premier 14 and Classe 200 combo for 3 years, all MIT cabling with my 3.6's. I like it alot. Haven't had tons of gear through here for comparison sake but I can listen for hours to this system.
mikesinger
572 posts
 
i would agree with mrderrick and some others.

your thiels are not bright- they are just revealing of what is there ( non forgiving speakers). there is a tradeoff here that works to your benefit.

though it requires more tweaking and synergy to build your system, it will also sound incredible once you get everything dialed in. a more forgiving speaker like the vandersteen will be easier to work with but wont achieve the level of resolution.

a solid state amp and tube preamp would give you the best of both worlds with minimal maintaince. the thiels like the current and can beneift from tubes in the line ( i think a system should have tubes somewhere in the line wether it be dac, pre, or amp).

some amp reccomendations -

classe cam mono's 200 @ $2200 pair
pse studio 5 signature - $1200 pair
muse monos - $1200 to $1800 pair

tube pre - ( i assume you would like a remote)
btw, i would personally avoid any pre that requires 4 or more 6922/7308's. they are too $$$ and to hard to come by.the 6h30 models are nice but minimal tube rolling with these.

pse hl-1 $1100 ( really hard to find- compares againest $3k to $5k )

audible L2 - $1600 -trying to find a used one will be hard

bat ( this is a hard one to reccomend due to the shortage of premium 6922/7308's - see aove comment.

herron - very, very nice but no remote

audio research - ls 16mkii $1600

hope that helps...dont forget to budget in for upgraded interconnects & speaker cable.

mike
mrderrick
291 posts
 
Sorry for my "short" post, I was short on time. I've owned a pair of SCS's, 2.2's and still listen to a pair of CS5i's. I used a ARC LS15 and Classe CA100 along with MIT 330 interconnects and MIT 750 speaker cables with great results Now I have a ARC REF1 with a Classe CA400, MIT 350 Ref interconnects and MIT Twin 770 CVT speaker cables. I don't recall the installation instructions from the 2.2's, but the 5i's suggest pointing the speakers straight ahead. This may create a problem with first reflections depending on your room. This can lead to listener fatigue to the point that stabbing an ice pick into your ear would hurt less than listening. Toe in can help a bit, but now those tweeters are angled more toward your ears. I've had the best results firing forward and treating the first reflection points on the floor and walls. I have a sloped ceiling, so I don't treat it. Many people feel that Thiels are bright and fatiguing(?). It just takes more effort to dial them in. The extra effort will pay off. Best of luck to you!
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