Why is the trend to make separate phono stage

Dcaudio,

I was in the same position as you are about two years ago. I went with a CAT Ultimate which is one of the very few choices left. If you want a pre amp with a phono stage I don't believe it gets any better than the CAT.

The CAT has three drawbacks. First, the volume control doesn't give you enough choices. You can live with it, but there is to much variation from from one step to the next. The power suppy is hard wired to the control unit. It's a major logistical pain. Finally, the CAT Ultimate isn't on the romantic side of neutral. It doesn't have excessive mid range bloom like some other tube pre amps do. This may or may not be a drawback, it simply depends on your sonic preference. In my case the CAT Ultimate, despite it's quirks, sounds so good it's going to be with me a very long time

The "25% thing" was a quote from the original post, not an assertion by me. I doubt Dcaudio did a study on it, nor would I expect him to. I certainly did not.
Nonetheless, IMHO, most folks aren't willing to pay for a phono section they won't use, and most manufacturers in their judgement think it makes sense not to include with most of their offerings.
Not that I necessarily agree, but that's another thread...
Cheers, Spencer

It's the $$$ for sure. Manufacture loves to seperate everything and sells for more money.

Regardless of the demand of phono stage, it's easy enough to include, good or bad is another issue. When you walk into Circuit City or Good Guys, count how many HT receivers out there that does NOT have a phono section. Here we are talking about mass market audio gears which should have less percentage of record spinner. So why would Sony or Denon include phono section to increase their cost? Because it costs so little when all you are adding is one small circuit to a big box.

Now, don't we all look foolish falling into this high end trap?

Semi, a good phono section is not a small circuit that manufacterers slap into a pre-amp. A reasonable phono section is a very complex piece of electronics, not an afterthought. A good one is much more complex.

A phono section is probably the most complex piece in most systems. Any error in that piece would be magnified by the pre-amp and the amp, making it painfully obvious when listening

My phono section would not fit inside my pre-amp, and I have a single box phono!

You can keep buying mass market junk at Good Guys or Circuit City, but don't fool yourself into thinking you are getting 'high end' electronics!

for over 30 years hi fi manufacturers included a phono section of superior quality in all stereo preamps and integrated amps. they were built to RIAA standards and fundamentally no different than the ones that are sold today which still adhere to those standards. after all they were the primary source of sound . are some better than others?..sure..but none is complex enough to warrant overcharging consumers. most high priced phono pres don't even have phono equalization, which was in high demand by audiophiles who considered vinyl their primary interest.