What will you be playing to celebrate?

Bmwhaus, I couldn't agree more.

I remember at the beginning of the year all the flack that the White House was taking when it was announced that Haliburton might have an inside track with post war rebuilding. Supposedly they were eliminated from the bidding, then were allowed back in, so surprise surprise when it came out that they've been over charging the whole time.

It bothers me that throughout the world and especially in Europe we're viewed as out of control cowboys because we act unilaterally, and break international trade agreements when they don't suit us. While I can understand that GW wants to protect US interests at home and abroad, his actions are isolating us from even our closest allies. Just a couple weeks ago Bush had to give in to a European and Japanese trade war threat because of the new [illegal] steel embargos he imposed.

Its interesting to speculate what could've been if we avoided this war, concentrated more on rebuilding Afghanistan, and saved some of that 85 billion for Medicare. But since we didn't, and we are where we are we can't jump ship now and skidaddle out of Mosul and Tikrit. We have a moral obligation to finish what we started, and that is the rebuilding of Iraq.

Will the terroism stop with the capture of Saddam? Dream on. But if we respect the people of Iraq, allow them to help in the rebuilding process as partners and show that we're their friends and not powerful bullies, maybe we've got a chance.

I firmly believe that the reason 9/11 happened was because of our past Middle East policies how we seem to favor Israel in almost all conflicts when it comes to the Palestinian issue. The Israelis are good people. The Palestinians are good people. But since the beginning of the 20th century when Zionism started ona a roll and the British mishandled the whole Palestine issue, the Palestinians have been humiliated, dishonored and treated as second class citizens of the Earth.

Terrorism isn't an Arab invention. It's always been used by a weaker force to combat an overwhelmingly stronger force. Remember when future prime minister of Israel Menachem Begin and his terrorist group Irgun leveled a section of the King David Hotel in the late 1940's killing 91 people? The Palestinians learned from that and many other acts of Jewish terrorism against the British.

There are many people in Israel that want to peacefully coexist with Palestinians and that a sovereign Palestinian state should be established. And believe it or not there are even some in the Arab world that are willing to live peacefully with the Jews. I was very hopeful when Amram Mitzna former general in the Israeli military and mayor of Haifa where Jews and Palestinians coexist very well was running for office against Ariel Sharon in this year's elections. I was disheartened when he lost.

Jews, Arabs and the rest of the world can coexist peacefully. In today's world it ain't easy, and it's hard to believe that a little over a hundred years ago there was no "Middle East Crisis". It all starts with respect.

P.S.
Here's something for you Bmwhaus and any of you conspiracy advocates. Do you think these secret, back room deals have anything to do with GW Bush's old Skull and Bones ties from his Harvard days? And since Skull and Bones members are supposed to help each other for life, it'll be interesting if Bush goes up against John Kerry in the next election since he's also a lifetime S&B member.

Great posts Gunbei, humour (cluster fuck, ROLOL!) and some very thought provoking info.

Watching the news up here in the "great white north" yesterday evening, our national, publicly-funded broadcaster showed file-photo footage of a broadly smiling Donald Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam in the early '80s. The now-Defence Secretary was selling chemicals or something at the time of his meeting with SM.

One of the people interviewed by the CBC last night is a professor at Georgetown University who suggested that, although Saddam may have indeed been directing some of the insurgency up until some unspecifed time, there may be a number of groups that are likely acting independently of one another. He referred to two main groups: 1. Baathists loyal to Saddam and 2. Iraqi nationalists opposed to Saddam AND the US-led invasion. There was another analyst speaking of the three large ethnic divisions and their respective territories in Iraq: the Sunnis (Baghdad and Northeast), the Shiites (pretty much everything South of Baghdad) and the Kurds (North and Northwest). What a mess!

I wonder though, instead of invading Iraq and going after Saddam, if there had been as much effort and money put into the expedition to Afghanistan and getting bin Laden, would the latter now still be at large??? Should the US and its allies have finished the job there and, in the meantime, gather more concrete evidence of WMDs in Iraq before invading? One would think that the Allies were in control of a large part of Afghanistan at the time and with the patience/tenacity shown in Iraq could conceivably have captured ObL.

Don't get me wrong, I think the capture of Hussein is a good thing, but the rationale for the invasion was never what one could call rock solid. As for being a supporter of terrorism, one could argue that Saddam encouraged it with huge payments made to the families of Palestinian suicide-bombers, but that doesn't prove a link with Osama.

Slipknot and Bmwhaus, your skepticism is understandable. There are too many coincidences, including profits for those close to the White House, for there not to be serious questions. Whether are any real answers are given, or just the same stonewalling platitudes, is another matter. I won't hold my breath though.

Just my 2 cents (Cdn), 1.4 (US). :-)

Oh yeah, music to celebrate... I think I'd rather spend time remembering those who have lost their lives during the events of the past couple of years and teach my children about what it means to me to be a good person. Tolerance, love your fellow (wo)man, etc.

Peace, everyone.

Gunbei,
Very inciteful posts as usual. However... Skull and Bones is a Yale society not Harvard. The only reason Dubya got into Yale was papa Bush.

"Bombs over Bagdad" By Outkast.

Frankly, im amazed that saddam was not "shot while trying to escape" with "300,000"USD on him.

hehehehehehe

soldiers are honest!:)

Ahh, Yale? My mistake, I knew it was of them thar skoolz. Papa Bush AND Grandpappy Bush were all in the same society. I thought they were all Free Masons until I saw that 60 Minutes piece on Skull And Bones. Thanks Slipknot!

Mghcanuck, If I were GW I would have followed the path you described. Easy for me to say though because we don't know what they knew at the time, but also kind of spooky when you realize they didn't really know that much and seemed to have made up some stuff to bolster their case against Iraq.

My fear is that Bin Laden had been planning his escape for many years and he was ready for the possible repercussions of a US led invasion. It seems Hussein was also well prepared, but he finally got caught. However, when the White House realized we weren't making the kind of progress we'd hoped for in Afghanistan in regards to catching Bin Laden, maybe due to faulty intelligence, I don't know...that's when we decided to shift the world's and our nation's focus from one Middle East nation to another more "winnable" situation. It just seems that way.

Now let's enjoy the holidays and hopefully by catching that scraggly old fellar there might be a boost in holiday retail sales.

One question. Who the heck are you guys gonna vote for in 2004? I haven't a clue yet. We've had an actor as president and California governor, and an ex pro wrestler as Minnesota governor. Maybe a cast member from Survivor or Queer Eye For The Straight Guy might run.