Attention Scientists, Engineers and Na-s


Isn't it funny how timing works. With all the different discussions on proving this, show me fact on that and the psycho acoustical potential of the other thing an article comes along with the same topics and some REAL potential answers. I received my newest copy of "The Audiophile Voice" Vol.7, Issue1 today and on page 16 is an article written by David Blair and Bill Eisen titled "In The Matter Of Noise". The article focuses on disturbance noise but has some reference to thermal noise, low frequency noise and shot noise, and our ability to measure these noises with the equipment of today. We have measured noise as low as 6x10 to the power of -5, or approximately a few cycles per day. We have also found through laboratory testing that the human brain is stimulated with frequencies from just above 0Hz to just below 50kHz. U.S. Department of Defense documents also show studies of low frequency activity below measurable levels and there various affects.
The article then begins to talk about out of band (hearing) noise and in band noise produced by our electronic equipment and the potential of these noises effecting our sound system. The assumptions are that "disturbance noises rob our systems of dynamics, low-level information, tonal purity and stage depth". These effects are for the most part overlooked and misunderstood by the scientific communities. They say they think that our speakers being hit with "massive quantities of R.F.I. are affected" A very good quote referring to power filters was "Effective noise control imposes no sonic tradeoffs or downside." How often have the discussions here on Audiogon focused on what they are doing? A very interesting comment was that Teflon is capable of carrying 40-Kilovolts static charge, and the industry is touting this as a great insulator for audio signals, that's scarey!
Now I bring this to light because I believe the view of the "Scientists and Engineers" here on Audiogon is so narrow that they are failing to see the exciting challenges in front of them. If all these noises do exist, which they do, and they can be transmitted and received through our systems, isn't possible, just maybe feasible that the insulation of our wires, the casing of our dedicated lines the size and shape of the conductor could, just maybe effect the sound? Isn't it even possible that forces set off by electrical components could be interfering in some so far unmeasured and inaudible way affecting the sound. Do you all test within the full spectrum of 0Hz to 50Khz for every possible situation? Or is it possible, just ever so small of a chance that you are overlooking a whole new science yet unexplored. Doesn't that, even slightly excite your little scientific fossils?
Man if I was younger, healthier and wanted a challenge. This is a career if you'd just climb out from behind you oscilloscopes and spectrum analyzer and see the world is indeed still spinning, and yes, it is 2001. Remember how 30 years ago 2001 was going to be so exciting. What the hell have the Scientist, Engineers and Na-sayers who tote there stuff here on Audiogon done for the advancement of science. Anyone, have any of you really broken through! J.D.
128x128jadem6
Nice thread J.d.Makes you think, I wish i was smart enough to figure it all out.
As a scientist/materials science engineer, I can tell you that closemindedness is no more endemic in audio than anywhere else. The man who taught me more about research than anyone else showed me that THE most important thing to learn was to never get married to any theory, practice, way of doing things, etc. Rules are broken every day. Those who live by this mantra are the people who discover things. Others, go slowly along, citing what the accepted positions are, and make very little in the way of discovery. One thing to remember in audio is the old saying, "If you can hear it, but cannot measure it, we just haven't figured out how to measure it".
Trelja, I agree 100%. I am an electrical and computer engineer and see first hand every day the mistakes that result from "assumptions." I augh when I see posts from fellow engineers who propose that their technical background insures a monopoly on the truth. I always try to remember that the best scientists in the world once thought that the earth was flat ....
Please don't tar us all with the same brush. I'm an engineer/scientist who still trusts his ears over any piece of test equipment.
Great post Trelja, I would love to see us here break down some of those barriers and maybe as a group begin to think different. It will take yours and others of like mind to create the platform. I was thinking that a lot of the creative juices must be lost in the computer field, but you're here so that's hope!
I was thinking of all the posts of voodoo lately and believe a majority are under this yet under defined science. Think of the shelving, footers, isolation discussions. Are they talking about vibration or is it noise not measured? Power cords, outlets, power conditioners talk of this noise, but I think only tell a third of the story. Power supplies, capacitors, resisters, solder all deal with part of the story. What else have we yet to learn that will open the doors? Interconnects and speaker wire, it goes on and on. My belief is there are way too many of us who claim changes to our systems that something must be to it. How often in the development of our society have we had to look beyond the given, break the rules just to move ahead. I'm so excited to hear you all talk outside the box, no right or wrong, just theory to be proven later! HAVE FUN, DREAM!!!!!! IF WE CAN'T DREAM TOGETHER, THEN WHAT'S THE POINT?