Attention Scientists, Engineers and Na-s


Isn't it funny how timing works. With all the different discussions on proving this, show me fact on that and the psycho acoustical potential of the other thing an article comes along with the same topics and some REAL potential answers. I received my newest copy of "The Audiophile Voice" Vol.7, Issue1 today and on page 16 is an article written by David Blair and Bill Eisen titled "In The Matter Of Noise". The article focuses on disturbance noise but has some reference to thermal noise, low frequency noise and shot noise, and our ability to measure these noises with the equipment of today. We have measured noise as low as 6x10 to the power of -5, or approximately a few cycles per day. We have also found through laboratory testing that the human brain is stimulated with frequencies from just above 0Hz to just below 50kHz. U.S. Department of Defense documents also show studies of low frequency activity below measurable levels and there various affects.
The article then begins to talk about out of band (hearing) noise and in band noise produced by our electronic equipment and the potential of these noises effecting our sound system. The assumptions are that "disturbance noises rob our systems of dynamics, low-level information, tonal purity and stage depth". These effects are for the most part overlooked and misunderstood by the scientific communities. They say they think that our speakers being hit with "massive quantities of R.F.I. are affected" A very good quote referring to power filters was "Effective noise control imposes no sonic tradeoffs or downside." How often have the discussions here on Audiogon focused on what they are doing? A very interesting comment was that Teflon is capable of carrying 40-Kilovolts static charge, and the industry is touting this as a great insulator for audio signals, that's scarey!
Now I bring this to light because I believe the view of the "Scientists and Engineers" here on Audiogon is so narrow that they are failing to see the exciting challenges in front of them. If all these noises do exist, which they do, and they can be transmitted and received through our systems, isn't possible, just maybe feasible that the insulation of our wires, the casing of our dedicated lines the size and shape of the conductor could, just maybe effect the sound? Isn't it even possible that forces set off by electrical components could be interfering in some so far unmeasured and inaudible way affecting the sound. Do you all test within the full spectrum of 0Hz to 50Khz for every possible situation? Or is it possible, just ever so small of a chance that you are overlooking a whole new science yet unexplored. Doesn't that, even slightly excite your little scientific fossils?
Man if I was younger, healthier and wanted a challenge. This is a career if you'd just climb out from behind you oscilloscopes and spectrum analyzer and see the world is indeed still spinning, and yes, it is 2001. Remember how 30 years ago 2001 was going to be so exciting. What the hell have the Scientist, Engineers and Na-sayers who tote there stuff here on Audiogon done for the advancement of science. Anyone, have any of you really broken through! J.D.
128x128jadem6
Hey folks, chill a little, here, please. In just 37 posts what could have been a really useful discussion broke down to the standard "You don't want to hear what I'm saying, so I won't talk to you anymore, and further more (fill in the insult of your choice here)". But dammit, both sides have the same problem - a question to which they do not have an answer.

There is in this thread the illustration of the "musicality" of tube amps, and the observation that they apparently have higher levels of harmonic "distortion" in the lower harmonics. I'm neither a scientist, nor a fully qualified audiophile, but even I can imagine a possibility - that tube amps can pass thru more of the harmonics of the instrument than solid state does. Their inherent harmonic distortion amplifies those harmonics of the instrument (it's a guess, here folks - please see above disclaimer). My point here is that any scientist should be able to demonstrate that this is or is not physically possible, if not precisely "true". And develop theories of why it could be true, if present science can't absolutely prove/disprove the effect. The one illustration of a double bind test where differences in power cords were detected with a surprising degree of accuracy (and 100% is not the standard for reliability in such a test) should be written up and published, so such a test can be examined and duplicated (and if the participants can't write it up in standard scientific format, perhaps an objectivist could lend a hand?). The possibility that the "Golden Ears" actually can hear things others can not must be examined. Lord knows my spouse can hear things I don't! I mean, there's alot going on that just plain requires a whole lot more study. Which leads us to the plain and simple fact that study costs money and requires resources and organization that a group of hobbiests assembled on an internet usegroup just isn't all that likely to be able to assemble. It's a noble cause, we have all the knights and shining armor we require, we just lack Camelot and the King to pull it all together. I liken basic scientific research to feudal times - lots of fiefs, some grander than others, and lots of feuds, some pettier than others, but lacking a cohesive, central thrust that would unite the effort into a totally effective force. Instead, we have to pull the disparate pieces together to effect a desired outcome. I don't know this for a fact, but it wouldn't surprise me to learn that when I pay a seemingly exhorbitant price for a piece of gear, I'm not paying merely for the assembled components, but rather the bulk of the cost is for the research that led the design team to assemble the components in the way that they did. I'd be interested in knowing more about the history of Canada's famed anechoic chamber, for example. It's a potential model for the type of facility I think we need in audio to fully develop the potential for accurate sound reproduction. I just wonder if the economics exist for such a project?

Well, anyway, let's among ourselves drop the swords and daggers, try to overlook the real and imagined slights in the interest of extracting the intent and valuable content of a given post, and above all continue to help one another extract the best from what the audio gods have given us thus far.

and if you don't, you blithering idiot, I'll flame the bejesus outta ya ;-)

chas
Vantage - Where are you located? Are you willing to consider a $10,000 bet. I don't want to do this if it isn't worth the trouble. If so, we can seriously consider how to arrange this.
JD - What I see constantly being put forward is called an "argument from ignorance". This kind of argument works like this, since we don't really understand how things work, whatever the arguer is claiming must be true.