Thoughts on the First Watt SIT Amps

Hey Chadeffect,

Nice system! Do you have the basshorns with your Trios? How big is your room? I've got the Avantgarde Duo Primos, which is one model down from the Trios. At the time I purchased them, I was contemplating getting the Trios with basshorns. I was told that the Duo Primos were easier to set-up and did not require as big of a room to sound their best. Have you thought about acoustic room treatment for your listening room? Professional acoustic room treatment (ASC, RPG, & etc.) was/is, by far, the biggest upgrade I made to my system. I know it sounds like hyperbole, but the room treatment transformed my listening experience.

The Audiopax Model 88 tube amplifiers (look like toasters:) were probably the most natural and best sounding amps that I heard on the Avantgarde line of loudspeakers. However, those amps didn't/don't do the creamy three-dimensional harmonic tube thing (like a good 45 amp) that many tube guys tend to seek out. The SIT amp is the best solid state amp that I heard on my Avantgarde loudspeakers. If the SIT had one weakness I thought it was in the dynamics department, which I thought was a slight weakness with Audiopax Model 88's.

I'll try not to make this into a tubes versus solid-state debate since I like both. I don't want the music I listen to on my system highly influenced, changed, colored, or editorialized by tubes, cables, electronics, power, and by the room. I believe that the best sounding tube and solid-state amps sound a lot closer than most people would be willing to admit. Tube amps by Coincident, Audiopax, Art Audio PX-25, Wyetech, and Yamamoto along with solid-state amps by First Watt, Pass, and Sugden are all great sounding amps that share many of the same attributes.

Hi Brawny,

thank you.

I will try not to divert this thread, but in answer to your question I do not have the bass horns, but obviously have their active subs which work very well & cut in around 90hz.

There is alway an element of set up to get the best out of any speaker. But once you get a feel for what they do it's ok. There was a period of break in & understanding what sounded best.

I have not tried the audiopax but have read good things about it. I've also heard about problems with them too.

I have been lucky enough to have tried many great amps on the AG. Many I could have lived with including the Tom Evans. I was told that the 45 would not power the Trio due to the xover. But I have had no problems in my room which is an average size. Maybe in a bigger room i would have problems.

To get back on topic if I had a concern it would be about the usual tube issues.

The bass on the Trio with SS is mind blowing. It's so present. But the 45 had such wonderful texture that I don't mind losing some crispness. This is why I had high hopes for the SIT.

My feeling is amps should sound similar as they should just amplify. But unfortunately this is not true. Hense the long journey

Thanks for the response. I never purchased the Audiopax amps because they had reliability and major service issues. When the folks representing a company have a hard time getting service I can only imagine what customers had to go through to get service. It's a shame because Eduardo from Audiopax was/is a talented designer. However, there is much more to running a business than designing product.

I owned and demoed a couple of 45 amps in my system. With Jazz, blues, and vocal type music they sounded fantastic. When music got complicated and needed power and drive the 45 amps faltered a bit. I listen to a lot of rock, classic rock, and classical music. Often times loud and sometimes very loud :) Even though Avantgarde loudspeakers are very efficient, I find they still need more than 10-20 watts to get them to really open up. I once heard Avantgarde Duos driven by BAT VK-150SE tubes amps and they sounded effortless. Dynamics that smaller amps just can not do. Musical preferences and type of presentation the listener is looking for are huge determining factors that influence an amplifier choice.

I found that the SIT amp met most of my needs in an amp. It could use more power and drive and in my case less noise. If you ever do demo the SIT amp, please let us know your thoughts and if you run into the noise issues that I ran into. FYI, Reno HiFi that represents First watt gave me great service.Take it easy.

I know this discussion is about current production SIT, but I had a Sony TA 5650 VFET amp in the day for ten years before it failed and was very fond of it. SIT and VFET are different designations for the same kind of voltage controlled transistor type.

I have had a variety of tube amps, both push pull and SET and own several SET amps at the moment and three DHT based preamps.

I recently acquired one of the Sony TA 4650 VFET amps to use as a phono amp in a second location.

The phono amp uses a small signal VFET in the RIAA gain circuit, which then goes to a single small signal FET gain stage, and then feeds the push pull amplifier stage in this model. One can switch in or out the tone control stage which adds another small signal FET stage.

My thoughts about the VFET on hearing it again is that it most definitely is superior to most standard solid state amps.

The sound is very "fast" with the ability to image with enormous specificity in the sound stage in three dimensions.

The tonality is natural, with a non fatiguing character, unlike most transistor devices. The VFET has an analog sounding pulse response.

The dynamics are open and liquid, like DHT tubes.

Where it differs is that it does not quite have the "charm" factor of good DHT designs, and the tonal decay is sharper, without the more sumptuous resonant tails that SET designs have. The tonality of the VFET device is natural but a bit on the shallow side compared to tubes.

I have found that coupling DHT preamps with good solid state amps is an outstanding combination for some reason. I would not have thought that DHT preamp would synergies well with solid state amps, but they do, and sound very good that way.

Haven't tried the DHT preamps with the VFET yet, they are at different locations, but may get another VFET to try with Manley 300b preamp*.

I imagine that Allnic L5000 DHT linestage sounds fantastic.
Regards,