B&W 802D vs Wilson WATT Puppy

Atmasphere,

1. you are right on B&Ws sounding better w/ SS than tubes- 800N with AR tubes were the worst set up I've ever heard. very sharp observation indeed! :-)

a point to consider, though.
2. WP7's impedence plot shows that it too dips down near 2 ohms- stereophile sept. 2003
and JA also recommends a high current amp.. BUT you're still right that WP sounds better with tubes than the 800s with tubes ;-)

it is general notion that the wilsons are easier to drive.. (true for sophias) but.. could this be a marketing stuff?
the sensitivity and impedence are no where close to say.. JBL S9800 horns, which sounds FNATASTIC with anything....

looking at other measurement there are more resonance in cabinet and in the waterfall plot on the WP than say the old 801N or 800N... not to be a geek or jerk.. but I'm wondering where this superior midrange of WP is coming from?
I'm not trying to start a war or anything.. just MHO :-)

The WP7 has a 2KHz trap to deal with a resonance, resulting in an impedance dip at that frequency. As you might imagine, transistor amps tend to heat that trap in the crossover rather nicely, where in a tube amp the filter does its job rather well. Tubes have always driven the speaker fairly easily. Were that 2 ohms covering a spectrum rather then being a tight band reject filter, the speaker would be a lot harder to drive; the reality is it is easy to drive.

As far as which has the better midrange I am not commenting on that, merely that the impedance of the 802D points to compromising the bass performance of tube gear used on the speaker.

I say this a lot: if you are going to invest in tube amplification, your investment dollar is usually best served by a speaker that is 8 ohms or more (particularly in the bass region) all other things being equal. Tube amplifiers for the most part prefer higher impedances, and given what they are capable of, why not show them in their best light?

Why not use your ears not specifications. Almost everyone know that specifications are for technicians to see if the unit is working properly & have almost no reference to sound quality. You cannot measure detail,resolution,depth,imaging,sense of space. You can argue with specifications not real performance.
When is the last time you listend to live music?

Atmasphere,
yup you're right again :-)
ain't nobody's gonna make me drive my b&Ws with tubes .. :)

krellm7
I think specs usually translate to actual performances...especially when it comes to mating a right amp...
- I'm not a speaker engineer by any means...

and last time I heard the live music? a month ago..:-)

i love classical music, and I've been to say .. 100+ live performances and I think B&W speakers are quite (not 100% of course) faithful when it comes to reproducing the realism I get from the lives :-)

btw... I love your system.. the original matrix 800... AWESOME!
good day, gentlemen

I owned both the Nautilus 801 using Krell FPB 600 w. upgraded mains & now the Watt Puppy 7s using the Krell & now VTL 750. It is an unfair comparisoin considering the price. But I will agree that the Watt Puppy 7s are a much better speaker. The 802D is a different question but I would guess that it will have the same problem as my 801s. The Kevlar midrange needs to be played loud to come alive. If it is played at low volumes it sounds muddy. In addition the Wilson is in an entire different league. The cabinet is sonically "dead" compared to the B&W. I love my 801s for years but am not sad to see them go. The bass on the Wilson is much more quick than on the 801s. I don't know if this problem extends to the 802D but the midrange is the same from what I am told & from the reviews. The midrange is incredibly musical at loud volumes. I hope this helps. I also found the Sophia to be an excellent speaker which sounded much better than a Nautilus 800 while listening at a Wilson & B&W dealer. I don't always trust dealers setups to demonstrate correctly the best of each speaker. Often it is too much work to move around equipment & optimize the system. Also, I have realized the you might hear an abused speaker or one that is not broken in. I was lucky to compare the speakers in my own house. It was no going back for me. I now just added the Watch Dog subwoofer. It wasn't a must but it definitely completes the package.