whats your idea of loud music.


ok here' what got me thinking about all of this.

i was in a dealers show room a while back checking out his ar monoblocks(sweet)& he put some smooth jazz on for me,the maggies sounded fantastic & i asked him to turn it up to a loud volume so i could see how the maggies responded.

after he gave me a stupid look he turned it up a notch & then stepped away & covered his ears like they might rupture or something & were talking about the volume being at the point where i could of heard him fart from 5 feet away,i asked him why he wouldnt turn it up loud & he told me that he wasnt sure what i thought loud was but the volume he had was more than enough for anybody.

i also see threads where guys reccomend these low power amps that i have owned with speakers i have owned & they say that the amp speaker combination can obtain listening levels that are not only louder than anybody would care to listen but unsafe levels to boot & when i had the same gear i thought the combination was way under powered & no where near being loud.

i consider loud to be when you can feel as well as hear the music & not from sitting right in front of the rig,i also consider loud to be when things on the walls move & my coffee cup has a little ripple on top of the coffee or when the dog runs for cover,i also consider it to be not loud if somebody in the same room can talk to you from 5 feet away & be heard.

im not looking for a right or wrong answer im just curious as to what other guys consider loud to be defined as.

mike.
128x128bigjoe
Depends I guess, on the mood I'm in. There are times after work when I sit down in front of the system, to answer email, with a record on the table, and my hearing becomes very sensitive, such that "loud," is no more than 70 dB average SPL.

Other times "loud" doesn't begin to happen, until up into the high 80s. Our most important sound system is prone to "gain adjustments," as befits our mood and state of energy.
A BIG LOL to Mike the biker and Elizebeth.

Loud wont hurt you until it becomes such that it over powers the ears mechanical abilities to discren frequencies, and this is quite beyond 110dB, thus causing mechanical defect/damage to the working parts ofthe ears and the need for hearing aids- LOUD rarely causes this, most often unchecked bacterial invasion is the culprit.

If the Sound is loud, yet undistorted, more often then not, no hearing function is, or, will be lost. Want proof?
Ask all the ENT doc's whom own Krell systems. Or, some one who has been into Audio for more then 20 years- BTW, I hear just fine, better then most for that matter.
Eldartford made some good points about distortion, power levels and perceived volume. If one looks in the archives, you'll find that i've always been a BIG fan of "dynamic headroom" in all aspects of system operation. Stressing any part of the system introduces some form of distortion and that added distortion adds apparent volume.

When a system has reached the point of having a high level of dynamic headroom, one can listen at phenomenally high levels for extended periods of time without it sounding "all that loud" and / or experiencing "listening fatigue". This is not to say that i would recommend making a regular habit of this or that everyone should strive to achieve such things from their system, but personally, i find this a very desirable trait. I also found that when i had achieved this level of performance, my listening levels had actually crept up on the average. I know that others here have experienced and shared similar vantage points too.

Having said that, i find that certain recordings have what i find to be a "proper" listening level. Not everything was meant to be played at roaring volumes, nor do all recordings sound best as "background music". A good recording sounds best at the appr listening level that one would encounter if listening to the performers at a live event. Obviously, that volume level will change with the size of the venue, one's listening position, the acoustics of the room and volume of people in attendance, etc... Just as we all have personal preferences in volume and seating positions at live events, i'm assuming that also applies to how we listen to and have our our systems set up at home too.

Other than that, Alpha 03 also made some very valid points. What we are discussing here is the ability ( or inability ) to generate clean SPL's. Due to different levels of loudspeaker efficiency and how they individually dynamically compress the signal, room loading characteristics ( yes, ALL rooms "acoustically overload" at some point ), the ability of the amp to load into and control the speaker system, etc... all add up to what we hear and experience. Like most things, it is a complex subject with a lot of variables involved. Sean
>

PS... One can run "straight pipes" on a Harley and have them sound "quieter" than a "race tuned" but muffled "rice rocket". Once again, this all has to do with acoustics, how we hear, the tuning of the exhaust system and the resonant frequency that the tuning occurs at.

Higher spl's or "louder pipes" don't necessarily make more power and in many cases, they actually make LESS power over a wider bandwidth. This has to do with the volumetric efficiency of the motor and the flow velocities involved.

As a case in point, my vintage Harley with straight pipes is measurably quieter ( and less annoying ) than my friends much newer "highly modified" Honda that has "racing mufflers". This happens for the same reason that i can hear "rice rockets" revving up to 10,000+ rpm's several miles away, whereas the noisy "blat" of a poorly tuned Harley only makes it a few blocks. This has to do with the volume of air displaced ( bore & stroke vs rpm's ) and the tuning frequency of the intake / exhaust system.

Much of this has to do with acoustics and the way that our ear / brain processes information. This is why the government chose to use higher frequencies for use in our "emergency sirens", not the less offensive but potentially equally "loud" low frequencies. It is for this same reason that many people prefer to listen to a "soft, warm & smooth" sounding system as compared to a "more forward" and / or "bright sounding" system.

Different strokes for different folks.
I don't know if I agree 100% w/ Bigjoe. There are guys who used to gun their bikes up and down our (deserted) quiet street at 2 in the AM when the nearby biker bar "The Bashful Bandit" closed. We (residents) cured that recently when the City of Tucson installed speed bumps deciding no doubt, it was cheaper than patrol cars being called all the time; now we can get some sleep!

As for audio, I honestly can't understand why anyone would want to play something at a volume in excess of what the source would produce in reality. (I realize this is a little more difficult to determine with rock performances, and you sort of have to decide where in the "stadium" you want to imagine yourself :~)

Nevertheless, I think dialing in the volume just right to obtain what you believe is the actual performance level, not too loud, not too soft, is an art, and requires some real listening skills.

I also want to say I think there is some merit to Sean and Alpha's comments RE: the quality of reproduction v. volume v. auditory damage, but only up to a point! I'm in my sixth decade, and I know I've lost my hi freq acuity, but I can still hear almost the whole Cardas sweep track if I turn the hi freq. portion way WAY up, ha Ha!

Which brings me, apropo of Alpha and Bigjoe's remarks, to share something I've read about, but never tried -- and which this thread has inspired me to do: apparently a certain amount of lost auditory acuity can be restored by wearing ear plugs for prolonged periods when hearing isn't important to you, ie not when driving and not when sleeping (don't want to miss that smoke alarm!) Supposedly, after doing this for even a few days, your hearing ability is very much improved. Which means that a part of the problem may have to do with overloaded neural circuits and not overloaded eardrums! Anyway, I'm going to try it, and report back.

.

Joe
I'd have your hearing checked. Being that you ride a Motorcycle, you may have sustained some damage over the years unless you've worn hearing protection. I can't stand loud music which is why I don't go to concerts of any type.