certin speaker makers harder to get dissounts fro

Dealer cost of most items they sell, including speakers, is 60% of retail price, generally, not the 40% someone above is implying; lower priced lines like Marantz and NAD may give them even lower margins. Exception is cables, which seem to have a higher markup, particularly at the manufacturer's end. High end dealers generally do not have the volume and profit margins car dealers do, so I'd cut them some slack--remember that they have operating costs that eat into that 40%. My suggestion if you want to buy from a dealer is to buy the dealer's demo speakers (assuming it's a competent dealer that knows how to set them up and doesn't blow them out), you'll save 20-25%, even more if the dealer is desperate, and they'll be already broken in as a bonus.

By the way, in answer to your question at the top of the post, Thiel always used to, at least, try to keep a leash on their dealers to keep them from discounting much. I bought my CS3s as demos when I first got into this hobby, they served me and my friend to whom I sold them well to this day!

Thanks Mt10425 , it took me 2 years of over time to raise that sum and its my entire budget for L,R, C speaker and display Im am ready to wait if i must and put in the hours needed to raise the aditional funds if requried. I understood Martin Logan to be of superb bulid quality and I love the sound at least at the Dealers. My friend who was a Doctor and always got me great deals well the axiom he told me was " Never never pay retail". I as a paramedic have not had such luck. I hope I dont come across as having a Unwarranted "sense of entitlement" .Belive me I have worked hard and just want the best my money can do for me and my children. I hope not to put out this kind of money on speakers again for at least 6 to 8 years. Got to keep them kids in school.

I agree with Lush. Either appreciate the service provided by a dealer, and be happy with a typical 10-20 percent markdown, or buy off the internet and take your chances. Using a dealer can benefit you by being able to listen first (and sometimes even audition in your own home) and not choosing your equipment solely based on reviews and user posts, which can be a big economic advantage in the long run since you are less likely to purchase equipment you don't like. Good dealers can also be very helpful with equipment matching, set-up, and room optimization. But you are paying for that service. If more and more of us choose not to pay for it, then the number of dealers will decline. That is why most of them do better with HT.

Bigjoe and Rcprince are greatly mistaken about the realities of retail. THe higher ticket items are often at lower dealer margins because the manufacturer assumes the higher actual dollar figure taken in offsets the lower margin. Fact.

Brands that have a %60 margin or greater are often from borderline generic companies that do inflate the retail price to make the high percentage discount appear like a great deal.

Please refer to the post by Lush if you want some useful information. If you enjoy this hobby support it. If you don't support your local music scene you will get no good local live music. If you do not support your local restaurants you will have Hardees and Ruby Tuesdays. If you don't support your local furniture/clothing/stereo store you will have Wal-Mart.

For those who will be content with an Audiovox boombox after hi-fi is dead I say "beat those greedy stereo retailers into submission and get your stereo at cost while you can."

Some manufacturers do protect their dealers and their brand by having strict no-discount rules. Many of the brands mentioned above have these rules in their dealer agreements. This is why you will be hard pressed to find them at the same bargain discounts as brands like Pinnacle, BIC, and Cerwin-Vega.

End of rant.

Cjlcapp.

dont make apologies about wanting to spend your hard earned cash sensibly,there are a lot of guy's here who are hourly paid worker's & yes 11k is alot of cash.

the best advice i could give you is that you need to know exactly what you want & exactly what the going rate is for the same item used,if you approach buying high end gear like a business investment things will become much clearer,dont walk into a dealers store & beg as "lush" says is done just walk in & state what you want & what your willing to pay but also be sure to let him know that you will not be buying on impulse & if he cant meet your price for simply running your credit card thru then somebody else will,nothing personal just business.

Lush

get a handle on reality bro,dealers are not a dying breed they are undergoing a major change & the one's who are too set in their way's to accept & make nessacary change's are being phased out,like it or not audiogon has drasticly changed the way hifi is sold & i personally like the changes.

the day's of dealer's treating every customer like the next big whale are all done my friend,high end audio has been being sold by volume percentage's for a few years now just like everything else.

i dont care what your trying to do there is no experience like hand's on experience & no amount of time spent with any dealer will will beat hand's on experience,i would much rather have my audio know how come from my own experience with different gear in my own home because that is what teaches people how to build great sounding system's & not what was talked about with a dealer,with the exception of one dealer most other brick & mortar dealer's ive met dont even have hifi system's but choose instead to abstain from owning high end gear or have low dollar midfi system's so what's to be learned from them.

also you say that more than 20% off at a high end dealer is mind blowing well get ready to have your mind blown,on many occasion's ive walked into my dealer's store & left with deep discount's on new gear & several time's these discount's have came close to 50% & my dealer is far from being broke or stupid but he is a fantasticly savy businessman.

if you choose to pay top dollar for your gear that's fine but dont try to make other's look like the root of all evil or the grim reaper's of hifi because they chose to approach this hobby just like the dealer's do,business,nothing more.

you can talk shop till your blue in the face with dealer's but in the end all that talk will get anybody is a vocabulary full of useless audiophile phrases & a pile of geat that cost a small fortune.

mike.