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Acapella vs. Avantgarde

I currently run a Cary CD-306, Cary SLP-05 preamp, and Cary 805AE monoblocks with a pair of ProAc D38's (see system). The combination is sweet and involving, but the combo just does not boogie when asked to play a large orchestral piece, by Mahler/Wagner/Shostakovich. When the volume is turned up, dynamics are poor and the system starts to sound compressed. I suspect that the 50W Cary's simply does not have enough guts to drive the ProAc's, so I am considering replacing them with a more efficient speaker. Since most SET afficionadoes love horns, this led me to look into Avantgarde and Acapella.

I live in Melbourne, Australia. Avantgarde is available through a dealer here, but he does not have any in stock. The Acapella dealer is in Sydney (a plane flight away). I am looking to spend A$30,000 - which will buy a nice Avantgarde Duo, or a secondhand Acapella High Violon.

I have read plenty about the dynamics of the Avantgardes, but my concern is if they have horn coloration. Also, how do they image? Are they sensitive to room placement?

Would the Acapella High Violon's be a better buy, considering the pair I can potentially get my hands on have been heavily discounted? I have read that Acapella's suffer from disjointed sound because of the three different driver technologies (plasma tweeter, horn mids, conventional woofer). How much is this a problem? And are there any room placement issues? Given that the Acapella's have lower sensitivity (91 dB/W/m) would I be achieving a real upgrade by moving from the ProAc's?
amfibius
kurt_tank
1,188 posts
 
When I was at CES last month, I got to hear both the Avantgarde's as well as the High version of the Violons. The Avantgardes sounded good, but was not really my cup of tea. (I have never much liked the horns, either their sound or their looks). Until I heard and saw the Violons. They were impressive. (Too rich for my blood, but if it were my choice, I certainly would consider the high model of the Violons!

My two cents worth.
cmo
471 posts
 
Amfibius,

I wouldn't call the Avantgarde's "harsh and trebly". The AVG "sound" if you will, is revealing and VERY dynamic. I think whart does a good job describing things... If I can I'll add a little more to help you clear things up.

I came from big Martin Logans (Prodigy's) which were really nice. They threw a huge soundstage and were very fast and revealing..... But, laid back and polite.

Now, with the AVG's things are still VERY fast and VERY revealing. The main diffences are that these speaker are not laid back; I don't mean they are aggressive (although they can be w/the wrong front end or recording). They "jump". They are very dynamic; that drum thwack is gonna thwack man! It took me a little getting used to this "sound" after my nice sweet, polite 'stats...... Now there is no going back. Who know's where the journey will end, but I have to say, this horn thing is really cool.

More....... Take it as gospel that you will hear everything; cell phones, tube changes, the master-mix in the next room if it's on your same circuit, but like other have said; you can get it all sorted out with a little effort.

I'm not so sure about your room; it looks like you have your ProAcs pretty close to the front wall. You're going to need some space behind the AVG's (think 3-4 feet min.).

I'm not so sure about your amps with the AVG's either.... Transformer noise is an issue and you need quiet amps.

Hope all of this helps.

Chris
amfibius OP
282 posts
 
Markxii, the Violons I have the opportunity to purchase are the "high" versions. Strange, I thought that the next version up came with an active subwoofer. Maybe i'm wrong! (that wouldn't be a first!)

Whart - by the way, nice Lamborghini :) I'm a bit of a Porsche man myself though! Given that you had Quads before, I was wondering what you thought of the imaging/transparency compared to them? I have heard Quads and so far these are the speakers which have impressed me the most in terms of mids and trebles. The only downside of the Quads is that they did very badly with orchestra when asked to play at higher volumes.

Cmo, I have actually rearranged the room since I took a picture for A'gon. The system now fires down the length of the room, and it's a pretty big room - 8' high, 18' wide and 30' long. I can afford to pull the speakers 3-4' out of the wall (and in fact I have).

Kurt_tank, could you please explain what you didn't like about the Avantgardes?

Thanks for your input, docsavage. So far, people seem to think that the Acapella's have a markedly better midrange/highs, but the Avantgardes are more efficient and more dynamic. Seems like a good summary to me.
tbg
5,263 posts
 
I had the Avantgarde Duos and Trios, I now have LaCampanellas. I know you have an opportunity to get a used pair of Violons with their excellent plasma tweeter.

I must say that I could not get either the Duos or Trios to sound good in my room and think the bass is screwed up on both. I have a friend who has replaced the double woofers on the Trios with another woofer. It sounds quite good now.

I love the plasma tweeter but always find that it far outshines the rest of the Acapella speakers, regardless of price. I bought the LaCampanellas because they do not use the plasma tweeter but have a honk that extends down to 750 Hz and multiple small woofers below that. The sound is very well integrated. I have heard the new Violons and think the integration is better than in the older version.
whart's avatar
whart
1,930 posts
 
Amfibius: A comparison with the Quads yields what I like best about the Avantgardes (and probably to a good extent, horn speakers in general). The coherence of the Quads is hard to beat- to my ears the 57 is better than the later Quads. (I have not heard the latest crop, but my 'late' pair is a Crosby-mod 63, which improved the bass, and overall dynamics, yet is still not as natural in its see-through quality as the 57).
This exacting perspective becomes critical because the speakers cannot reproduce dynamics on any big scale- they sound congested on orchestral and rock- everything is in miniature on large scale works. (The speakers shine on simple, small scale performances, jazz combos, female vocal with less than a full orchestra behind it.)
The Avantgardes simply do not suffer these limitations. They are very dynamic, and bring an 'alive' quality to the proceedings which makes criteria like 'imaging' much less important. (Yes, they throw a very convincing 3d image across a wider spectrum of the musical bandwidth but at this point, you are not listening for 'imaging'- instead, you are hearing the instruments or voice, standing free of constraint). Are they 'transparent'?Yes, in ways that a lover of a good electrostat would be more than happy with.
Cars- have had a couple P-cars, 996 GT2 Clubsport and currently have a 993 C4 Cabrio. Judging by your name, the Amphicar must be on your short list. :)
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