Acapella vs. Avantgarde


I currently run a Cary CD-306, Cary SLP-05 preamp, and Cary 805AE monoblocks with a pair of ProAc D38's (see system). The combination is sweet and involving, but the combo just does not boogie when asked to play a large orchestral piece, by Mahler/Wagner/Shostakovich. When the volume is turned up, dynamics are poor and the system starts to sound compressed. I suspect that the 50W Cary's simply does not have enough guts to drive the ProAc's, so I am considering replacing them with a more efficient speaker. Since most SET afficionadoes love horns, this led me to look into Avantgarde and Acapella.

I live in Melbourne, Australia. Avantgarde is available through a dealer here, but he does not have any in stock. The Acapella dealer is in Sydney (a plane flight away). I am looking to spend A$30,000 - which will buy a nice Avantgarde Duo, or a secondhand Acapella High Violon.

I have read plenty about the dynamics of the Avantgardes, but my concern is if they have horn coloration. Also, how do they image? Are they sensitive to room placement?

Would the Acapella High Violon's be a better buy, considering the pair I can potentially get my hands on have been heavily discounted? I have read that Acapella's suffer from disjointed sound because of the three different driver technologies (plasma tweeter, horn mids, conventional woofer). How much is this a problem? And are there any room placement issues? Given that the Acapella's have lower sensitivity (91 dB/W/m) would I be achieving a real upgrade by moving from the ProAc's?
amfibius
So, I ordered the Violons.
Good for you!
I need to think about how I am going to drive them with my own meagre SET's...
Others have given comprehensive info.
My info comes from playing with Violons (& Campanile) using Mahler 5 (Barbirolli) & 2 (Klemperer), and a few other things. So, driving Violons & the Mahlerian or Wagnerian Orchestra:
1) You know and I can confirm that reproducing the musical illusion and impact of a full Wagnerian Orch is tricky. Worse, a fully blown Mahler 8.
2) Tricky No2: you have one unit and no horn, for mid and down.
The applicability of ONE amplification unit, working seamlessly fm dc to daylight, is questionable. You need to use two channels/side. However, this is tricky to do as the xover is set very high (normally you'd need the extra horn to go down to, say, ~100Hz) which means, well engineered amplification. So, I recommend you settle for ANYthing that can produce acceptable/good lower mids to mid-bass with yr speakers (i.e. ~60Hz upwards, this applies even with the "bass enhanced model, whatever they call it -- which is the one I played with). Many diy options in Ozz... so, do try. When find a selection of products that seem to work it's all about finding the one that blends sonically w/ yr SET. Forget the 40Hz range for the moment.
3) "What would be nicer":
If you could use an active xover with adjustable slopes, phase and attenuation prior to the amps -- despite the existance of the passive.
4) Depending on yr room & set-up possibilities, you may need to incorporate separate woofs (the ubiquitous "sub" woofs).
5) Check points:
Amplification: refer to upper mids & lower-mids as they are portrayed together, i.e. the piece you're listening to contains both ranges. Forget mids for now, and forget transparency/ amount of detail, etc. Focus only on how realistically these two ranges sound.
Positioning: work on getting the mid-bass right and the bass (such as it is) should suddenly appear out of nowhere. It's a matter of "coupling" the 2 lower units; there should be an optimum positioning range for this in yr room. In some cases, it;s a matter of less than 1". You;re playing w/ wavelengths is all -- no rocket science.

TO simplify things with the Violons, I used ss class A everywhere. I also tried hi-ish powered SETs everywhere (KR). I used the same amps for all channels; I also tried a very cheap xover (simply, a Behringer, that was laying around). I used a TVC, so no active pre stage. All of this was at a dealer's where equipment was readily available.

The result CAN be good, even on Mahler 8! I didn't use subwoofers -- but could have, most usefully so. I couldn't play very loud & this is relative to room size of course: when the ppp was easily discernible, the ffff was simply compressing. The room was large (~80 m2).
Cheers
Gregm, thanks for your response. I have been in touch with Rob (rwjp), another AudioGon member. We live in the same city and I have met him. He seems to know you.

I took your comments to the Acapella dealer. He said that he has tried amplifying the Violons with the following configurations:

- bi-amped with identical valve top and bottom
- bi-amped with valve on top, SS on bottom
- bi-amped with identical SS top and bottom
- mono-amped with SS
- mono-amped with valve

He told me that the best result was always obtained by mono-amping, and has something to do with the design of the Acapella crossover. He cannot supply the schematic for me to examine myself ... although it may be possible for me to do a bit of surgery once I get the speakers to look at the crossover design. He can't even tell me what the slopes are. ALl that I know, is that they cross over at 800 and 4500Hz.

At the moment I have abandoned my bi-amping idea and will probably upgrade my amp to the Cary CAD-211AE. 110W of Class A/B push-pull. I would like some feedback on whether other members think this is a good idea, or whether I should just buy the Cary CAD-500MB's (500W SS) to put on the bottom?
Amfibius, which tube amplifiers did your dealer try? At CES Hermann Winters of Acapella mentioned biamping while we were listening to the High Violon Mk IIIs. Einstein The Final Cut Mk 60 monoblocks were used. Einstein amplifiers are used to voice their speakers.
Amfibius, I would encourage you to try the Exemplar Statement amp. I use it on my La Campanellas with great success. Previously I had used the Reimyo PAT 777. I would not suggest using its line stage which can be bypassed.
Essentialaudio, the dealer demo'ed the speakers with Wavac 805's (55W SET's). I asked for these amps because they are "sort of" similar in power to my Cary CAD-805AE's. I know people recommend Einstein OTL, but unfortunately these are not imported into Australia. The dealer carries the rest of the Einstein line, but specifically not the OTL's. Which is unfortunate.

Tbg, is this the website for Exemplar?

http://www.exemplaraudio.com/

Can't seem to find anything about the Statement amp there. In any case, I don't think it's available in Australia which rules it out.